Lock inlet repair

[Uncle Alvah]

This is my first build. As the pictures show, the lock mortise looks pretty bad. Previously some folks on here recommended "adding a piece" to try and tidy it up some. Should I add a piece along the edges of the mortise with the lock in place and then dress it down? Suggestions much appreciated.

[Mike Brooks]

Cut out a square section in the bad area  then inlet a piece of wood that fits the square section, staining the cut out and filler before you glue it in. Then reinlet the lock in that area.

[Mauser06]

Are the pics with the lock plate fully inlet??  Bolster flush to the barrel???  Looks pretty proud of the mortise and the wood is pretty rough... meaning it'll obviously need smoothed out which will reduce it further.   

I noticed for myself, once I reduced everything, the inletting looked better.  Obviously a big gap won't disappear...

[PPatch]

Uncle A, what Mike said, inlet a block of wood into that area. The technique would be similar to a block I inlet into the forearm on a gun a while back due to worm holes exposing the side of the barrel and the wood being weak. Here are photos showing the method...

First you need to define where your block of wood will sit. Then make the bit of wood you'll inlay, it should have an approximately two-degree bevel from top to bottom, the bottom being the narrowest part. In the photo below you can, if you look real hard, see the slight bevel on the ends of my block.



Your particular block will have the approx. two-degree bevel on several sides. The beveled sides must be smooth, I use a hand plane to do the bevels - you should not leave the sides simply bandsawed or having been cut on a table saw, or the glue lines will show. When you cut into your lock area you can use your block as an angle guide. Doing this, using a bevel on your inlay helps a whole lot in making the repair invisible, or as near as you can get anyway.



Before you actually glue the block in stain both it and the area you hogged out to receive it, doing this is another aid in hiding the repair. Also, you will want to do a full mock clamp up before actually gluing the piece in just so you know everything will work as you expect. Give your glue plenty of time to set before unclamping.



Once the glue cures you can work the repair by leveling it and inletting the lock tail again. In my case I only had to do a bit of work getting the barrel in correctly.



Hope that helps, I use an Exacto knife to cut in while paying close attention to my bevels as I go deeper, you use whatever tool you are handy with.

dave

ADD: Here is a photo of a similar repair I did on the same gun last week - I had to hog out the ramrod channel as it was wanting to come out the belly of the rifle. To my eye the repair looks good and once the gun is stained and finished the repair ought to not be very obvious.

[Turtle]

 Here's another easier option. I'll probably get grief for this. A customer brought me a partially built gun with a more sloppy inlet than this. He wanted an inexpensive effective, and functional  fix for this gun he was going to use as a shooter. The rest of the gun  was ugly and was never going to be a showpiece. I applied acuglass gell dyed brown around the lock inlet and inserted the lockplate with release agent in the correct position. In the process I was able to correct the improper touch hole location. After it set I removed the plate, sanded the inlet edge flush, and stained the stock to match the repair. Unless you know where to look it's unnoticeable. After 15 years, he is still shooting it.

[Billy Mike]

PPatch, your on the fly tutorial is brilliant.

Mike Brooks, only a gifted expert could offer such concise advice that is as useful as yours, in such a small space.

Mauser06, great advice.

Turtle, well done Sir.

Uncle Alvah, I once showed my first rifle, which could have easily been yours. What has surprised me is that no one said anything about sharpening.

I'm on the same level as you, so I will let others speak.

This thread is very worthwhile and educational for me.

Thank you most kindly.

[Uncle Alvah]

Are the pics with the lock plate fully inlet??  Bolster flush to the barrel??? 

Yes. The pan is tight to the barrel.

[Uncle Alvah]

What has surprised me is that no one said anything about sharpening.

It has been mentioned many times to me in past posts about this build. I have invested considerable time in trying to improve my sharpening ability. I still seem to suck at it but I am better than I was. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that the stock is Ash. Some face-to-face training would be a big help. I am hoping to visit a woodworker friend who teaches sharpening seminars from time to time. I also believe I would benefit from a visit to the Dixon fair, but thats a pretty good haul from here. 8 hour drive, 500 miles.
I believe I have spent as much effort on fixing my mistakes on this gun as I have advancing the project. lol!  However, I'm having fun, and I'm learning a lot, so its all good!

 

[Billy Mike]

What has surprised me is that no one said anything about sharpening.

It has been mentioned many times to me in past posts about this build. I have invested considerable time in trying to improve my sharpening ability. I still seem to suck at it but I am better than I was. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that the stock is Ash. Some face-to-face training would be a big help. I am hoping to visit a woodworker friend who teaches sharpening seminars from time to time. I also believe I would benefit from a visit to the Dixon fair, but thats a pretty good haul from here. 8 hour drive, 500 miles.
I believe I have spent as much effort on fixing my mistakes on this gun as I have advancing the project. lol!  However, I'm having fun, and I'm learning a lot, so its all good!

I still have my initial butchery. It's nearly in the white now. I'm somewhat laid up now, but will be resuming work asap.

I took a guitar building course that had a great class on sharpening. Also took a Lee Valley course. Bought some books and a slow rpm grinder which included the dvd.

I can sharpen decently now.

Next I need to become skilled with the drill press and learn to use the metal lathe I bought. I love building these guns and learning the skills. Saying "become skilled" makes it sound as if I think I am. But trust me, I'm not.

[Turtle]

 I find some wood needs to be sliced, not stabbed to get a clean inlet. A sharp exacto knife will do it or even a small angled point chisel helps. This doesn't seem to be necessarily based on the type of wood.

[JTR]

PPatch, Do you have some pictures of the completely finished repair work you could show?
John

[PPatch]

PPatch, Do you have some pictures of the completely finished repair work you could show?
John

Currently no. Tomorrow I will be inletting a skid plate to cover the remainder of the RR channel. The area under the front finial on the trigger guard I will leave alone as it covers the RR hole in that area.

Skid plate almost formed for inletting...



dave

[Craig Wilcox]

ppatch, that was an outstanding tutorial on fixing errors - well done!  I know that sooner or later, I will be using your technique.

Uncle Alvah, one of the "secrets" to sharpening is to be consistent with the angle that you sharpen at.  Carry that same angle all the way from "roughing" it in, through the various grits.  If you have an aid for consistent angles, when you get through all the various stones, use the final stone to "bump up" the angle by 1 or 2 degrees, so that just the tip end of the chisel gets a new angle.  It only takes one or two passes on your finest stone.

Then put a polishing agent on some smooth leather.  It can be Tripoli, fabuluster, red rouge, or simichrome polish.  I have even used "Mother's Mag Wheel Polish"!  rub some into the leather, not a lot, then drag your freshly sharpened chisel across it, 3-6 times, applying downforce.  You will be buffing off any trace of stone mark while you do this.  And do not forget to flatten the back of the chisel, get rid of the little hook that forms.  Of course, if you are going to use the chisel vertically as a scraper, that little wire edge is going to be what smooths the wood surface, but generally, you just want the back as smooth as you can get it.  Three or four passes on your leather hone will surprise you - feel the chisel tip, and it will be warm from just that little bit, if you are applying downthrust.  just do not cut yourself!

[Scota4570]

The lock moldings are too thick.  This is a good donor site.   I'd take some off there with a spoke shave.  Save the strips.  Glue as many as you can in the gap with carpenters glue.  Respect the grain orientation.   Use the lock plate to compress the strips.  Dress it down when dry to match the surrounding area.  If it does not stain right use a black sharpie marker to disguise it.

Use black marker for spotting stuff in the future.  If it does not transfer, don't cut it.  When you get close but a little to tight, heat the plate to about 400* and push it in the recess and let it cool. If you get any serious smoke spritz it with water.  If you do it right, it will not char the wood but it will soften the lignen and make a perfect fit.  Remington did the cheezie checkering this way in the 1960's.

[SingleMalt]

To add to what Scota said, Elmer's stainable wood glue works wonders, AND takes 99.9% of stains.  Your repair will be nearly invisible.

[PPatch]

ppatch, that was an outstanding tutorial on fixing errors - well done!  I know that sooner or later, I will be using your technique.

Craig; I can't claim the technique and I don't own it. It is an ancient, but standard, woodworking fix that goes back ages.

Uncle A; As you can see there are several solutions to your lock mortice problem. I urge you to choose one and move forward. As you say you are learning a lot on this build, good, that is part of what it is all about. For your first gun you are doing about normal and the errors you've made have not killed the project. All of us, in one way or another, experience such problems and there are more often than not fixes for them. Experience teaches you those tricks, teaches you how to move beyond the problems. Forward!

Cheers

dave

[Uncle Alvah]

The lock moldings are too thick.

I don't understand exactly what you are referring to?

[mark esterly]

[Stoner creek]

Mark is correct. Thin the distance between your locklpate and the edge of your raised surface (at least along the longer planes), 1/8 of an inch is a bit wide in most applications. Yo need to stretch things out some at the back side of the lock area. Look at lots of well made guns and you’ll know what I’m saying. Your raised area is way too thick.

[Uncle Alvah]

Taking down the mouldings made a huge difference. Ya'll might cringe but its looking better than I expected it might. The front of the lock requires the most attention.

[Scota4570]

The moldings are way to thick vertically.  The area above and below the middle of the lock should end up about 1/8" tall.  The tail area tapers out more.  The area above the cock is a flat up to the tang.  If you remove it with a spoke shave or plane you an use the shavings to fill your boo-boo. 

[rich pierce]

The barrel breech tang does not look fully inletted.  Is this a precarved stock where you finish  inletting the lock first then the barrel?  You’ll need to finalize that before shaping the wood surrounding the lock (the lock panel) to show the amount of wood you desire to show on the flat plane the lock sits in.

[Uncle Alvah]

Is this a precarved stock where you finish  inletting the lock first then the barrel?

If I'm understanding you correctly, it is a pre-carved stock but the lock mortise was not cut.

[rich pierce]

If there was no lock pre-inlet, the barrel and tang should be inletted all the way before the lock is inlet.  Maybe it is but in the photo, is not down all the way,

Do you have a book/books on building a longrifle?

[Uncle Alvah]

Do you have a book/books on building a longrifle?

Yes. Recreating the Longrifle and Gunsmith of Grenville.