Author Topic: John Newcomer Tang Carving? (Read 2610 times)

Scota4570 · « **on:** July 19, 2018, 09:52:06 PM »

Am I close? I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this.

rich pierce · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2018, 10:32:24 PM »

Yes, close. If you’re looking for a bench copy you could fiddle some more. If not, that looks good.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2018, 11:31:16 PM »

I think this version looks more like what he intended to do. I have not examined these details as carefully until now. The original is not symmetrical. This version seems more practical to carve.

rich pierce · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2018, 12:08:35 AM »

The lobes at the top of your design appear longer and thinner than Newcomer’s to me. That is nit picking.

J. Talbert · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2018, 12:31:55 AM »

I think it's more apparent in the right side leaf than the left on the original photo, but I believe each one represents a single broad acanthus leaf drooping to the side with a flip at the end.
Your drawing doesn't quite capture that yet. Your second one is closer than the first.

Do you see what I'm saying?

I could probably draw it and photograph it if need be.

Jeff

Scota4570 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2018, 02:29:18 AM »

Maybe next time? I have another to do on the entry pipe. I'd welcome the suggestion. You could copy my drawing, mess with it in MS Paint and post the modified drawing.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2018, 05:04:15 AM »

Here is a gun I made years ago with my version of this carving. Might give you some ideas...

http://www.jimkibler.net/rifle-8.html

J. Talbert · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2018, 05:18:04 AM »

Well Jim's gun illustrates just what I was trying to explain.

There you go...

Jeff

Scota4570 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2018, 06:08:43 AM »

Jim,

Thanks, that picture was part of my research. I saw that and like it, and then found Newcomer's rifle. The tips of the big outside leaves are not clear in your picture. Are you saying that they are supposed to be rolled over, over the smaller ones?

Scot

J. Talbert · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2018, 06:43:05 AM »

The last picture is correct.

Jeff

Chowmi · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2018, 06:53:54 AM »

Quote from: Scota4570 on July 20, 2018, 06:08:43 AM

Jim,

Thanks, that picture was part of my research. I saw that and like it, and then found Newcomer's rifle. The tips of the big outside leaves are not clear in your picture. Are you saying that they are supposed to be rolled over, over the smaller ones?

Scot

Scota,
Not an expert by any means, but I think you got the idea there. The way I see it, the tip of that leaf is folded over, which you captured in the last drawing.

If you want to copy the original picture exactly, it looks to me like you have left out one element. Wish I could draw it for you, but I suck at drawing. So, I will try to say it with words instead.

Look at the original picture, particularly the right side. That looks to me to be a single leaf, with three "lobes" (don't know the right word here...). Two short ones on either side of the long one, which has a folded over end. Your last drawing captured the long one with the folded over end, and also the top "lobe" (top, as in "up" in your drawing), but missed the bottom one. In other words, the original photo has three lobes, your drawing has two.

The second photo you posted had all three, but without the folded end of the big lobe. Your third drawing dropped out the third lobe.

My terminology is probably terrible, so I hope you get the meaning of what I said.

Cheers,
Norm

alacran · « **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2018, 02:45:34 PM »

I find it interesting that in the photo of the original. there is little symmetry. The little circle at the base is not centered, the left side is different than the right. Like on a living plant.
I suppose that what I am getting at is we spend to much time looking for perfection in our carvings.
I looked at Mr. Kiblers version. Indeed it is a lovely rifle. However it is totally modern in its execution. Nothing wrong with that.
Lucky for Mr. Newcomer that he wasn't copying any ones rifle.
Just my opinion.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2018, 03:12:16 PM »

Quote from: alacran on July 20, 2018, 02:45:34 PM

I find it interesting that in the photo of the original. there is little symmetry. The little circle at the base is not centered, the left side is different than the right. Like on a living plant.
I suppose that what I am getting at is we spend to much time looking for perfection in our carvings.
I looked at Mr. Kiblers version. Indeed it is a lovely rifle. However it is totally modern in its execution. Nothing wrong with that.
Lucky for Mr. Newcomer that he wasn't copying any ones rifle.
Just my opinion.

The carving isn't a complete copy of Newcomers, but I'm not sure I would agree it's "totally modern in its execution". Perhaps you could explain a little more?

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2018, 03:19:24 PM »

Quote from: Jim Kibler on July 20, 2018, 03:12:16 PM

Quote from: alacran on July 20, 2018, 02:45:34 PM
I find it interesting that in the photo of the original. there is little symmetry. The little circle at the base is not centered, the left side is different than the right. Like on a living plant.
I suppose that what I am getting at is we spend to much time looking for perfection in our carvings.
I looked at Mr. Kiblers version. Indeed it is a lovely rifle. However it is totally modern in its execution. Nothing wrong with that.
Lucky for Mr. Newcomer that he wasn't copying any ones rifle.
Just my opinion.

The carving isn't a complete copy of Newcomers, but I'm not sure I would agree it's "totally modern in its execution". Perhaps you could explain a little more?

I was just ready to post the same question. Looks more "old timey" than most I see.

alyce-james · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2018, 04:53:13 PM »

SCOTA4570; I like your design work at this time, however some added TLC will look great. Between the end of the tang and your design will vastly improve the overall finished design. Thanks for sharing. Aj.

Mr. Bubbles · « **Reply #15 on:** July 21, 2018, 01:52:25 AM »

For what it's worth, I think your design looks far BETTER than the original. I'm similarly certain that you have spent more time on it as well. for the most part, (apart from using modern materials and metallurgy) I think the guns made today by those dedicated to making good guns are far far better than those from days of yore.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 21, 2018, 03:11:10 AM »

Maybe like this next time..

J. Talbert · « **Reply #17 on:** July 21, 2018, 03:56:27 AM »

I prefer the acanthus to corn stalk.

Jeff

alacran · « **Reply #18 on:** July 21, 2018, 02:41:32 PM »

I will try to explain a little more. I did not imply that Mr. Kiblers carving was a direct copy. As it says on his website, it is "stylized", What I meant to say about modern in execution, was not about the motif of the carving. I was referring to its perfection. It is a 21st century flintlock rifle. I did not mean it as a criticism.
When I get to look at originals I see what many would consider imperfections today. I suppose it depends of what one is trying to achieve.
Mr. Newcomer was building to the standards of the day. I think that part of the folk art appeal of 18th century rifles is their imperfections of detail.
By the way Mr. Kibler I admire your work and I am envious of your craftsmanship and skill.

?

t.caster · « **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2018, 04:32:27 PM »

Take a look at Jacob Schroyer's works, he used this style leaf carving on most of his rifles...and each one was a little different from the last one. And they all looked good to me.

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Author Topic: John Newcomer Tang Carving? (Read 2610 times)