Rifling a barrel by hand

[Hunterwild]

Has anyone rifled a barrel like the old masters ?

[Angus]

Steve Bookout at Toadhall Rifleshop has rifled several. He even printed a book how.

[Hunterwild]

Thanks for the info

Hunterwild

[Marcruger]

I have talked to, or read about, a few folks who have rifled a barrel the old way.  What seems universal is they all say they have done ONE barrel.  Might be something to consider. 

I think it is a noble venture to make a barrel from scratch, and it keeps the old traditional skills alive.  Of course, it'll cost someone a gazillion dollars to pay a skilled smith for the time involved. 

That said, if you are going to go shooting with the end product, I cannot see why a rifle builder would use anything other than a barrel from a reputable modern maker known for accuracy. Barrels certainly don't cost that much out of the price of a nice build, and are the "heart" of a rifle in my opinion. 

Best wishes,   Marc

[Metalshaper]

My bud was fascinated  by  the  thought of making his own barrel, as was i. I helped him work on three different riflers. One a copy of Wagner's twisted square rod style.. the start of a traditional worm style.. the last one was a junkyard sine bar that worked really well.

For the sine bar he made the body from aluminum C channel an a Buick steering rack.
I built the index mechanism  and the cutter box assembly. For drilling I improvised a gun drill bit and we bored the  gun barrel grade steel ( gifted from a barrel maker who was interested in our results ) and bored it to within .oo8 TIR  on the schools Howa lathe.. After rifling it went onto his heavy barrel 'buggy gun '

Was it cost affective? Probably not! Did i/we learn a bunch while we were doing it.. you bet!! Can I honestly  say, yes I have built a barrel?  You bet, but that's my own failing as a sin of pride..  then again, when I can get back to forging again, the main thing will be to perfect my forge welding. Cuz at least once, even if it's only a pistol barrel, I want to skelp weld My own barrel.. reamed and rifled by my own hand..

I can buy a lock, but want to build  my own flint lock as well. J
< just gotta get past my wife and  her insane paint the house project now that my knees are replaced !> I've already  built my own muley and underhammer  locks.. and I'm trying to learn to engrave?

For me it's all about the learning?

Respect  Always
Metalshaper  /  Jonathan 

[Gaeckle]

I have, I have done so about 15 times. The secret to doing a good barrel (rifling, that is) is the prep work prior to doing the rifling, the barrel needs to be reamed as smooth as possible (essential), consistency, a good method of indexing from one groove to the next, a sharp cutter that either scrapes or cuts on the push or the pull, a way to clear the chips, good oil and a sturdy platform that doesn't move.

I politely disagree with Marc with the statement about accuracy. A hand rifled barrel is every bit as accurate as a production barrel, provided we are speaking of a patched roundball. When we are speaking about a patched roundball we need to remember that the ball never touches the rifling, the patch does. That being said, you could easily shoot some really bad groups if your patching or lube fails or the powder charge you choose may cause flinching or blow by.

There are probably a lot of folks that quietly rifle barrels, a few here and there, that don't participate on this forum. If you want to learn how to do this, take a trip to Friendship in the Spring or Fall and speak with the guy who demo's rifling there. Unfortunately, I have no idea where you are located.

The machine I have was built years ago by Dennis Priddy, it's gone through some modifications and has two leads with two twist rates for a range of caliber sizes. If I get a good blank and I have a good cutter, the leads will produce a very good barrel, but it is labor intensive and it is much, much easier to buy a new or even used barrel.

[Buffaload]

Jonathon, I would really like to hear about the techniques you used to drill the bar on the lathe if you care to take the time. Also how long was the drilled blank?  What was the pressure used on the drill?You must have altered the drive to the leadscrew to get the feed way down.
The runout you mentioned was really good.
Regards,
Ed

[Marcruger]

"I politely disagree with Marc with the statement about accuracy. A hand rifled barrel is every bit as accurate as a production barrel, provided we are speaking of a patched roundball. When we are speaking about a patched roundball we need to remember that the ball never touches the rifling, the patch does. That being said, you could easily shoot some really bad groups if your patching or lube fails or the powder charge you choose may cause flinching or blow by. "

You are definitely correct for calling me out on that Gaeckle.  What I meant and what I wrote were two different things entirely.  What I meant was in regards to hand forging a barrel from scratch from a skelp.  What I said was rifling.  My apologies sir. 

Best wishes,   Marc

[bob in the woods]

When one speaks of rifling a barrel by hand, folks usually think of an old time rifling machine/bench with indexing head, etc as demonstrated by Colonial Williamsburg, Steve Bookout and others.  I did one brass pistol barrel without any elaborate "machine", using two pieces of angle iron, with off set squared holes in them and some key stock.   Each groove had to be cut to finished depth before the barrel was rotated and re clamped.
Simple, and it actually worked .   Also , at the rather extreme stretch of what we could call hand rifling is the " scratch rifled" smoothbore.  I wouldn't have believed it, but a friend tried it and it does work.  It made me think that you have a lot of lee way in what works when using a patched round ball.

[David Rase]

I built my rifling machine in 2010.  I have rifled a couple of barrels and they have turned out superb.  I mainly use my rifling machine at gunmakers fairs and other public gatherings to help educate people on the old way of doing things.  There is nothing that kids like more then when you let them push and pull on the handle and then show them the swarth the made from the cutter. 
The book Steve wrote on building a rifling machine is probably the best out of all that are available.  That is what I used.  If I were to do it again there are definitely a couple of changes I would make based on experience to make the machine more user friendly, at least for me.
David

[runastav]

Hi all, here is my build from Bookies instuction work great we have rifled 9 barrel so far

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=30643.msg293702#msg293702
Runar

[Mike Brooks]

Looks to me like building the machinery is as much work as rifling the barrel, maybe more. Sure am glad I don't have to do that to make a gun, I'd quit.

[JV Puleo]

I thought about building a sine bar rifling machine once... one that could also do gain twists but it would have been a LOT of work.

[J Henry]

  If you do it you will know why a barrel is so expensive.See one made on a modern barrel sled once,by a Master Gunsmith impressive,long but impressive..

[David Rase]

I thought about building a sine bar rifling machine once... one that could also do gain twists but it would have been a LOT of work.

I just got rid of a sine bar rifling machine.  It was given to me several years ago.  I thought it would be good for restoration work if I ever got into that.  Got tired of tripping over it in my shop and gave it away, rifling heads and all.  Building guns is much more rewarding than rifling a barrel.
David

[Nate McKenzie]

Every year at Dixon's there is a rifling demo under the store.  The finished rifled barrel is used to build the raffle rifle for the next year.

[Gaeckle]

You are definitely correct for calling me out on that Gaeckle.  What I meant and what I wrote were two different things entirely.  What I meant was in regards to hand forging a barrel from scratch from a skelp.  What I said was rifling.  My apologies sir. 

Best wishes,   Marc

No need for an apology Marc, that clarifies things greatly.....we're both in the same 'church' just sitting in different pews

[Hunterwild]

Thank you for all the amazing info I am going to try one for fun

Hunterwild

[jerrywh]

 I built a rifling machine about 25 years ago and rifled a couple of barrels. Then sold it to a guy in Seattle , a friend of Dave Race named Mike Keller. it is in Vancouver now I think. Too much work and too nasty for me. No money in it either. But everyone should do it once just so they know what a good barrel is worth.

[David Rase]

I built a rifling machine about 25 years ago and rifled a couple of barrels. Then sold it to a guy in Seattle , a friend of Dave Race named Mike Keller. it is in Vancouver now I think. Too much work and too nasty for me. No money in it either. But everyone should do it once just so they know what a good barrel is worth.

Jerry,
Mike and I rifled a barrel and then sold it as fast as we could.  We sold it to Badger.  I doubt the he has ever rifled a barrel.  The novelty wore off faster than inletting a barrel by hand. 
David

[rich pierce]

Am I to understand a barrel can be rifled in a morning by an ambitious crew?  I thought it took days.

[Metalshaper]

Jonathon, I would really like to hear about the techniques you used to drill the bar on the lathe if you care to take the time. Also how long was the drilled blank?  What was the pressure used on the drill?You must have altered the drive to the leadscrew to get the feed way down.
The runout you mentioned was really good.
Regards,
Ed

Ed,

Kind of embarrassed to describe the process.. Cause in no way should it of worked as well as it did

surprisingly enough, the improvised boring bit was made using a carbide cement drill. reading an old popular mechanics "shop Notes ", they mentioned using cement drills for hardened steel and referenced drilling through a file.. Sure enough there is an old file in my shop that has a hole through the outer end! they mentioned running it fast and with firm feed. a junk masonry drill did just what they claimed. I bought a Green wheel and a new masonry bit. I ground my Jack-leg version, of an off center gundrill point..as  I saw it in my head.. The pressure side was ( where the bit wants to deflect towards ) was rounded and smoothed with a diamond file.. this to me, in my ignorant way of thinking.. would limit how much it would "push"

I went to the airparts store and bought a section of chomoly that would slip over the fluting of the bit.. and using a dremel  I cut in some fluid grooves. Marlow then fixtured it up and brazed the bit into the tube.. Toothpicks in the oil grooves kept them clear. Once that was ready we added the cutting fluid line on the  Howa to the back of the tube and we could flow coolant/cutting fluid towards the tip. The bar of steel was placed in the lathe and steady and centered/indicated as best I/we could.. using a starting bit and a regular drill, just a bit over the 'gun drills' size we made a starter hole.. about 5/8th deep. We mounted up the drilling bit, eased it in and stared the cutting fluid.. Running max out for spindle speed.. I hand fed in the bit.. baking it out every now and then to flush chip and make sure the swarf wasn't building up.. while the push tubing was smaller in diameter than the cutting face, it didn't allow for fully discharging the chips..

there was a lot of oohing and awing and stupid grins going on.. but the bit cut a reverse pip, just like a true gundrill does.. and if you eased it in carefully to re-engage the drilling it'd center itself back into place and restart the cut right where you left off.. we were in the High school's shop, where he taught and by the time we got everything going and got any depth.. we were nearing 10-10:30pm and had to stop.. Think we went about  20-22".. this left us room to square up/crown the muzzle and clean up breech the back end, after rifling. < there is a slight wear in and drop out at each end of the barrel, during rifling process>  measuring end to end we had .008 runout and I thought that was fairly decent? We used my armoury reamer to ream and polish the bore before the rifling process..

Lessons learned.. #1 while it shouldn't have worked as well as it did.. we got lucky!  I repeat, we got lucky!!!!
#2 I'd need to remake how I used the carbide of the masonry bit.. removing the carbide from the original shank and attaching it it directly to the driving tube,,The driving tube also needs
flutes pressed in to allow for free flow of the cutting fluid and swarf removal.
#3 more fluid pressure.. we were just using the Lathes coolant feed.. true gundrills operate above 200 psi for the oil flow!
# 4 higher spindle speed would have been better
# 5 true power feed, with constant swarf removal.. at a rate of .00025-.00035 per revolution/min is ( I think ) the recommended rate of feed .. giving about 0.4-.5" of cut per minute at 2000rpm

Good things.. the bit cut a reverse pip, and followed that down the bore! the cutter produced chips very similar to what a gundrill produced.. <and it (the chips) were like what was described to me by the barrel maker who got in touch with me.. and offered his advise..>

there was not all that much to lose in trying??? I figured I'd of know rather quickly if the bit was drifting, as I rested one hand on the push tube and used the other to feed in the carriage. excess vibration or any whipping would have indicated we were screwed.. ( and I cud have stopped and saved he bar stock.. ) as it was, it ran steady ??

that's about it.. nothing fancy or proper about how we did it..but it did do the job.

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

[Buffaload]

Thanks Jonathan, sounds like a fantastic adventure.
Masonary bit!?  Who woulda thought! 
I’m about ready to take a poke at running one on a lathe but I am going to slow the feed down. 
Running my lathe for over an hour at high speed bothers me a little.  I get why guys use pillow blocks and build drills.  600 worth of pillow blocks beats the $#*! out of spindle bearings and what it takes to change them!
Ed

[Metalshaper]

Ed,

 My Bud Marlow thought I was blowing smoke.. and challenged me to drill through a bearing race with a re-dressed masonry carbide. His shop has a Green Wheel ( silicon carbide ) and he provided the masonry bit. I dressed the bits edges with the wheel, while he chucked the race up in his lil Enco lathe. Using the tailstock chuck, and some thread cutting oil, I pushed that bit right through the Race! other than some squalling, the bit held up and made a new believer out of him!

Won't say its the best choice, but if your stuck and there is no other option??

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Wish I had a whole library of those old PM Shop notes and Annuals!!!

[P.W.Berkuta]

Every year at Dixon's there is a rifling demo under the store.  The finished rifled barrel is used to build the raffle rifle for the next year.

Here is one I "helped" rifle at Dixon's one year