New to site...have a few flints going up do I get a .60 or .70 rifle

[Plateboater]

Evening,

I have order in for a flint .60 but wondering do I push up to .70.   Main objective is deer in Illinois but will be venturing out within two years for other big game.
Tennessee Valley Muzzleloaders is the builder

Any guidance?

[Silky921]

You do not need a .70 to harvest a deer. A .45 can do that. 

On another note,.welcome and look forward to seeing your new gun!

[Plateboater]

Indeed.

[bob in the woods]

The reason that the .54 is so popular is that recoil , allowing for a decent velocity, isn't bad. Go up to a .60 or .62, and given the same velocity, the recoil will jump exponentially.  I personally use a .62 cal rifle for bear and moose and load it fairly stiff in order to get a relatively decent trajectory.  I also shoot a 10 bore a lot , and for the same game. It definitely drops them, and it is perhaps my favourite gun, but all said, I've probably shot more deer with .50 cal rifles and B weight 38 in barrels than anything else. Are you going to use your rifle for hunting only ??  If you want an all purpose flint rifle  for hunting and target shooting I'd go with the .54 or maybe  even the .50 , unless the design [ Edward Marshall } calls for a larger bore

[moleeyes36]

...Are you going to use your rifle for hunting only ??  If you want an all purpose flint rifle  for hunting and target shooting I'd go with the .54 or maybe  even the .50 , unless the design [ Edward Marshall } calls for a larger bore

Plateboater,

The questions that Bob in the Woods asked are right on the mark.  If you are going to be using the rifle almost exclusively for hunting of very large game (elk, moose, bear, etc), then a big bore rifle isn't so bad.  However, if you are going to be using it much for target shooting as well, a big bore rifle can be punishing and uses a lot of powder and lead.  If much target work is also in the plan, I'd shy away from anything larger than a .54 or .58.  I don't hunt anything larger than wild hogs, but like Bob I nearly always use a rifle that has a .50 caliber, 38", B weight barrel and have found no problems in dropping animals as large as 400 pounds with it.  Just my two cents worth.

Mole Eyes

[Mike Brooks]

I'd go no larger than a .54. That will kill most everything in North America except Griz. I'd switch builders, especially if you end up going .60-.70. , fit is going to be critical. I'd have somebody who has some experience in big game rifles do the job. If you choose the right guy and style of gun he'll reduce the felt recoil. He'll also use a hard piece of wood with correct grain structure.

[PPatch]

Nix on 60-70 cal, yee on .54 or .58. If it were me I would choose the .54 for the lower 48 states. What larger game do you intend to hunt beside Illinois deer?

dave

[Plateboater]

Tennessee Valley is the gun maker for the build.   I am going bear hunting in 2019 to start.  Mainly will be used for hunting.

[bob in the woods]

If TVM is your chosen builder, which stock profile/design will they be using ?   Are you specifying a barrel length/ profile ?
A .54 cal is a lot better than a .70 that you can't shoot worth a darn. 

[Craig Wilcox]

Welcome to the group, Plateboater!  You will find a bunch of gregarious guys and gals who truly devote themselves to longrifles.

Most all are very willing to give advice and assistance as needed.  be sure to visit all the various forums - tons of good stuff all around.

[Plateboater]

Bob still going over stock profiles with team.   Suggestions?.   Rice barrel and using the guidance in length.    Suggestions would be a great help

[Mike Brooks]

Bob still going over stock profiles with team.   Suggestions?.   Rice barrel and using the guidance in length.    Suggestions would be a great help

 English, 28 to 32" swamped barrel. Many styles of KY rifles have too much drop to shoot large calibers comfortably and keep the correct architecture.

 If you go with .54-.58 I'd go with a 42-48" swamped barrel and a Lancaster styled rifle.

[bob in the woods]

Like Mike Brooks said...of the different stock designs available from TVM, the Lancaster [ I would go with the Early Lancaster ] or possibly their " Virginia" rifle would probably be best for a larger bore .

[varsity07840]

I admit to having a soft spot for big bore rifles. Having said that, there is a lot to consider if you are going to hunt with something in the .70 cal range. I certainly don't think you need a rifle that big to hunt deer.  I'd be careful not to use a barrel with too slow a twist unless you're fine with using mass quantities of powder, which translates into heavy recoil. My  flint .72 has a 30" barrel with slow twist Forsyth rifling that needs A LOT pf powder to keep the ball stabilized. Likewise my percussion .69. Using 120 gr of GOEX 2F and a .678 patched ball, it grouped quite well at  50yards. At 100 I could barely keep it on the paper. Upping the charge to 150 gr. was the answer. Both of the guns have massive barrels and are very heavy. But sighting off the bench can be brutal. And, they are in no way off hand rifles for a guy like me who is vertically challenged.
(5'-5").  So, any stand I use them in has a shooting rail. If you're not a stand hunter, they are definitely not rifles you want to lug around in the woods all day. I haven't used either in at least five years. These days the biggest I carry into the woods is a .58.

[Bob Roller]

Bob still going over stock profiles with team.   Suggestions?.   Rice barrel and using the guidance in length.    Suggestions would be a great help

 English, 28 to 32" swamped barrel. Many styles of KY rifles have too much drop to shoot large calibers comfortably and keep the correct architecture.

 If you go with .54-.58 I'd go with a 42-48" swamped barrel and a Lancaster styled rifle.

Plateboater,
Maybe we can get Daryl to post some pictures of English sporting rifles so you can see how
these guns SHOULD be made. One "Live and in Color"photo shows him firing a .69 caliber rifle
with the correct stock profile.I am not a large man but I have had experiences with a 16 bore Greener
double rifle using round balls and 90 grains of 3fg and it had less felt jolt that some lesser calibers
with the traditional "Kentucky Rifle" stock shapes.Also I have had experiences with powerful English
breech loaders up to the 500#2 and they were easy to manage.
Look close,buy once,ask questions and on this forum you will get answers from very knowledgeable people.

Bob Roller

[leoparddog]

Personally I think, a .58 or .60 swamped 38" or so barrel should be enough for bear, elk and moose.  When you go above .54 the velocity really starts to drop off unless you can push the powder charges up to 120-150gr and take the punishment.  I'd be looking at the TVM Early Virginia, Jaeger, Early or Late Lancaster. Checking their website they list all of these up to .58, but I'm sure they'd do a .60 or larger for you.

Here is my TVM Late Lancaster that I built this past winter from the TVM kit.  Its a .54.   My next one will likely be a .62 smooth rifle

[Hungry Horse]

I’m not a big fan of .54 cal., But like Bill Large once told me, a .58 is nearly perfect for big game in the lower 48. If you choose the rate of twist wisely you can come up with a gun that shoots round ball, and conicals, pretty well. At a hundred yards a big .58 conical can knock a very large critter flat, if you shoot it in the right end. Even your .70 cal. Will be worthless if you can’t place the shot in the boiler works.

  Hungry Horse

[Plateboater]

Appreciate all the help.   Great site and good info for me

[Old Ford2]

Hi,
If you are like many here on this site, you could end up with a different rifle for every day of the week, maybe even one for every day of the month.
So caliber and style is not critical.
But if you are governed by a watchful wife, you will have some limitations.
As previous posters suggested there is a world of difference between .54 cal. and .58 cal. as there is to ,62 cal.
You can shoot a .45 all day, and powder & lead are not an issue, step up to a .58 and cost, fatigue and recoil  all play a roll.
I have a very fine Pennsylvania .62 longrifle that is my go to rifle for hunting, gong shooting, and a rifle that demands serious whomp.
But for target, I go to my .40 cal. very comfortable to shoot, extremely accurate, and does not tire me out.
I am one of those persons that need a different rifle for each day of the month.
Best regards!
Fred

[Elnathan]

I don't believe that there is anyone making a .70 barrel off the shelf, which means you are looking at a custom barrel, probably considerably larger in diameter than D weight, the largest barrel commonly found. That might be something to consider.

[bigsmoke]

Most longrifles and Hawken style rifles will get you addicted to pain killers once you get up to the more interesting calibers.  The English sporting rifles are much more pleasant to shoot.
I had a .62 that was a breeze to shoot with 135 grains Ffg.  Perceived recoil was much easier on me than my Henry .54.  The .54 would bruise the heck out of my arm where the .62 would only leave a bit of red on my shoulder.
I also had a .72 cal that I shot with 200 grains of Ffg that I did not feel was terribly abusive.
Both rifles had 1:104 twist.  And both were shot at rendezvous where allowed.
The .72 was my favorite all time rifle and the .62 came in second place.
My 8 bore and my 4 bore were fun to shoot 3 or 4 shots out of.  After that, not so much.  They got real tiring.  Real quick.  Just like a big guy punching you gets real tiring, real quick.
John

[varsity07840]

I had a Westley Richards half stock 16 bore (more or less) percussion stalking rifle that was a dream to carry. Feather weight with a tapered barrel 1 1/16" at the breech, 30" long.  10 groove rifling and a 1/60 twist. Basically a big bore barrel for moderate charges, unlike a Forsythe. With a 70 gr charge of 2F Swiss, it shot better than I could hold, but was absolute murder off the bench. 5 rounds before hunting season to see if it was still on and I was done.