Identification/DOM

[zachjimr]

Hi there,
Please help provide any information you can on this cap and ball rifle that has been in my family since at least 1890. 
I can read PA?MER ELLIOTT & Co. on the side but can’t find anything on line regarding this manufacturer.
Thanks, Jim

[PPatch]

PA?MER ELLIOTT & Co. was the company that made the lock, the gun itself was likely handmade. Is it possible to make more photographs? A view of the off lock side and the everything behind the lock including the cheek piece, if any. Details of the entry cap (where the ramrod enters the stock), the trigger guard, sights, muzzle, and any other markings. The gun looks in good condition for its age. There might be a signature on the bottom of the barrel, have you ever had the gun apart?

dave

[Bill Wilde]

Take note there is a filed recess on the butt plate for a patchbox lid. The fairly early wide butt plate is most certainly from another gun which would make me wonder if the whole gun is a restock.

[zachjimr]

Here are more photos.  Never been apart for at least 50 years.  My grandfather told me it had been bored, maybe to utilize shot?  Thanks for your replies!

[zachjimr]

There are no other markings on any part of the gun.

[Ky-Flinter]

Zachjimr,

Welcome to ALR.  And thanks for sharing your family heirloom.

The lock appears to have been converted from flint long ago.  In the first picture, it looks like an under lug near the muzzle.  That could indicate the barrel was once in a full stock.  I think the gun is a restock of old parts, given the patchbox relief in the butt plate that Bill mentioned, the early shape of the breech plug tang and the hole in the toe plate, likely for the box release.  How long is the barrel?   It appears longer than one would expect for a halfstock, but that may be due to camera angle.  As PPatch mentioned, barrel makers sometimes stamped the bottom of their barrels.  Pretty neat old gun.

-Ron

[Mike Brooks]

Yep, restock. Most of the parts are from a 1790-ish gun. it was probably stocked in it's present form sometime after1850, or later.

[T*O*F]

That lock is not original to the gun either.  Otherwise, the side nail would go thru the original hole instead of a new one, and the lock doesn't come close to fitting the mortise closely.  The gun is something a handyman cobbled together from available parts and repurposed into a hillbilly shotgun.

[zachjimr]

The barrel length is 41 5/8”.  You all have provided me with some fantastic information about my gun.  Information that I can pass down to my grandchildren. 

[Eric Kettenburg]

It looks like the brassware was 'lifted' from a Northampton rifle ca. 1780s or early 1790s, very possibly by Peter Neihart or similar given the engraving.  I think the toe plate is a good example of the original engraving and that looks very, VERY much like Neihart's hand.  The buttplate actually argues for a date in the earlier side of this range.  Extremely interesting.  Also the rear sight appears very much to be a Lehigh/Northampton area type of rear sight so I would also wonder if the barrel was also repurposed?  Could have been refiled or cut down etc. possibly obliterating any signature that might have been present.

[zachjimr]

Was repurposing/restocking very common?  It seems to me that it would take a fairly talented person to build a stock to fit these older components.  Also, can anyone tell what type of wood the stock is made from?

[Ky-Flinter]

Yes, restocking usable parts was common.  Stocks get broken.  Restocking would be no harder than building the gun the first time, maybe easier since this restock is a half-stock of what was most likely a full-stocked gun.  Wood looks like walnut.

-Ron

[Bill Wilde]

The brass star inlay looks like it was originally a cheek piece inlay. Where its positioned on the gunstock would not be considered a "normal" location for such a big inlay.