Question For The Experts

[OldMtnMan]

You ought to go with Chambers new England fowler. Probably the most likely gun your ancestor would have owned while in Mas. Unlikely he would have traveled clear to PA to see Haines for a rifle. Mass. didn't have a rifle culture anyway to any extent.

Ok Mike, how about this? On my way from Mass to Colorado, I passed through PA and bought the Isaac Haines. Does that sound feasible?
This will only work during the period Isaac was still building guns. So, the year I move to Colorado will change from 1810 to 1790.

[Pukka Bundook]

Pete,

You could have earned the rifle, clearing land or splitting rails, (as such is recorded)  and got a  used rifle as payment in 1810.
I still use a "modern" rifle made in 1918, (100 years old) so an old gun by Haines would still be up to date even if 30years old, and more likely for a lad to pick up, than a brand new one.
Even Longhunters sometimes borrowed a rifle from for a hunt from the company they worked for,  and if they did well, kept the rifle in exchange for deer hides.

Yep.  I'm thinking a lad setting out would have a used rifle, and 1810 fits in with that for a Haines. 

[rich pierce]

You ought to go with Chambers new England fowler. Probably the most likely gun your ancestor would have owned while in Mas. Unlikely he would have traveled clear to PA to see Haines for a rifle. Mass. didn't have a rifle culture anyway to any extent.

Ok Mike, how about this? On my way from Mass to Colorado, I passed through PA and bought the Isaac Haines. Does that sound feasible?
This will only work during the period Isaac was still building guns. So, the year I move to Colorado will change from 1810 to 1790.

All this gets unnecessarily complicated.  I don’t know who was in Colorado in 1790 except Spaniards and Native Americans. I’d just get an early rifle you like and roll with it. 

[OldMtnMan]

I didn't think it was complicated since that's pretty much what I did in my present life. The difference being Colorado was populated when I got here.

Was it possible for a lone whiteman to become friends with a local Indian tribe. This follows my real life too.

I'm doing the IH rifle. I'm just trying to make those who don't like my rifle pick see my side of it.

It could have went like this. In Mass I was using a local built gun. Probably hunting for whitetails. When I decided to go to the western frontier I knew i'd need a bigger caliber for the bigger game. I also wanted a good solid reliable gun. I write to Isaac asking him to build me a gun and i'd pick it up on my way out west. I wasn't poor. I just wanted to leave crowded Mass and my ex-wife and go west. In my present life I lived in a hunters cabin in a pretty remote area. I loved it and had I been younger I would still be there. So, I would have been happy doing it in 1790 too. I would have been no threat to the Indians and we might have got along.

[OldMtnMan]

The Isaac Haines rifle is the rifle I would pick. I don't see why one would not have been available to a man heading west. I am lefthanded also and am well aware of the problems you face. Fortunately the IH is available in LH from several sources. If I was building another .54 I would get the kit from Dunlap, top quality parts a little cheaper than others plus you have a choice of several grades of wood.
But due to shoulder problems I'm wanting another Isacc Haines with a "B" profile .50 caliber barrel. Track of Wolf offers this kit with quality parts but at a premium cost. So what I'll probably do is buy a Rice "B" profile in 50 cal. and just fit it to my IH with the 40 cal barrel.
http://dunlapwoodcrafts.com/component-sets/transition-isaac-haines-rifle

I found a thread on this forum about built Isaac Haines rifles from the members. Man, you guys can sure build beautiful rifles. Most are too fancy for this simple hunter.

However, you built the perfect gun for me. Plain but really nice and LH to boot. So, i'm going to follow your lead and show the pictures to my builder to copy. You mentioned using the B Rice barrel in .50 to save some weight. I've been thinking of that too if I skip elk hunting. I have time to think about that, but it does appeal to me.

Here's the gun i'm talking about. I love it!

[Mike Brooks]

Makes no difference to me, make up any story you want to get to the outcome you need. I'm fine with how ever it turns out.

[OldMtnMan]

I did and it follows my real life so close that i'm good with it.

[Mike Lyons]

You mentioned using the B Rice barrel in .50 to save some weight. I've been thinking of that too if I skip elk hunting. I have time to think about that, but it does appeal to me.

Here's the gun i'm talking about. I love it!

I may be wrong but the barrel needs to be figured out before you can start a rifle build. Inletting it is the first step in the process.  I’m sure the masters here can make a strait inletted piece of wood except a swamped barrel,  but I doubt anyone inlets a piece of wood for the wrong barrel on purpose.  It might fit with the story though.  You had a piece of wood you picked up from a drunk Indian in Mass inlet for a strait barrel and found Issac Haines at a brothel and talked him into building you a rifle.

[OldMtnMan]

You mentioned using the B Rice barrel in .50 to save some weight. I've been thinking of that too if I skip elk hunting. I have time to think about that, but it does appeal to me.

Here's the gun i'm talking about. I love it!

I may be wrong but the barrel needs to be figured out before you can start a rifle build. Inletting it is the first step in the process.  I’m sure the masters here can make a strait inletted piece of wood except a swamped barrel,  but I doubt anyone inlets a piece of wood for the wrong barrel on purpose.  It might fit with the story though.  You had a piece of wood you picked up from a drunk Indian in Mass inlet for a strait barrel and found Issac Haines at a brothel and talked him into building you a rifle.

Yes, I know. The Jim chambers kit will be for the C or B barrel and be inletted accordingly. The build won't start until the spring. Plenty of time to make my decision.

[Pukka Bundook]

Pete,
 A "B"  in .50 and a "C" in .54 may be real close together in weight.   I'd check and see but am working on re-tinning a roof.

[OldMtnMan]

Pete,
 A "B"  in .50 and a "C" in .54 may be real close together in weight.   I'd check and see but am working on re-tinning a roof.

You'd think so, but there's quite a difference.

B in .50........3.11 lbs
C in .54........4.3 lbs

An easy way to knock a pound off the gun. More pleasant to carry and shoulder. It's something to think about.

[oldtravler61]

  Just my $.02 but your heading west. More than likely you'd be traveling thru St.Louis to get there. That means about anything you pick up along the way is a feasible weapon for that period. As far as the years one way or the otheer. How many of us have hand me down guns or ones we have owned for years.  Oldtravler

[Darkhorse]

Pete,
 A "B"  in .50 and a "C" in .54 may be real close together in weight.   I'd check and see but am working on re-tinning a roof.

You'd think so, but there's quite a difference.

B in .50........3.11 lbs
C in .54........4.3 lbs

That's enough difference to make me want a "B" in 50 caliber. I have a "C" in .54 and it handles really well and not really too heavy but I just like the rifle with a "B" barrel better. A little slimmer and just feels better. Be sure that your gunsmith makes the stock to fit you, that makes a lot of difference to me. I don't know if you saw this thread or not, there are a couple of newer photo's at the end.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=49181.0

An easy way to knock a pound off the gun. More pleasant to carry and shoulder. It's something to think about.

[alacran]

A very good friend is going to be Elk hunting with me with an interpretation of an Isaac Haines that I built. It has a  Rice B .50  38inch Barrel. I 've killed three Eastern Whitetails and a javelina with it.  It comes in around 7lbs. Great hunting weight rifle. I found it to be challenging to shoot paper with it. Because I prefer A heavier gun for such tasks. However I managed to win a second loser medal with it at Friendship's woods walk with a 15 out of a possible 17.
My buddy loves that gun and now it is his.
Our Hunt is a late December cow hunt.  I will let you know how it performs on elk.



The target was shot offhand at 25 yds. It will shoot!

[OldMtnMan]

alacan.........I wish I could hunt with a .50 here for elk. I used to do it all the time and it worked well for closer shots which is how I hunt. However, this year Colorado decided a .50 PRb wasn't enough power and made a .54 PRB as a minimum for elk.

So, if I build a .50 i'm committing to just hunting for deer and black bear from now on. As much as I want to build the gun with a light B barrel. I'm not sure i'm ready to give up elk hunting. Especially, since it's the only hunt I do with my Lakota friend. He hates deer venison and I have to admit i'm not fond of it either. They taste like sage around here.
 So, with all that in mind. I think the C barrel in .54 is my only choice. I've always said if I could pick how I died it would be on an elk hunt.

[OldMtnMan]

Darkhorse..........I love your choices of how you build the guns. We think alike and I couldn't ask for anymore if mine turn out like yours. You're a good builder. Even if you think you aren't. I'm used one of your gun pictures as a desktop wallpaper.

Tell what grade of wood you choose and what did you use for stain/finish?

Thanks

[OldMtnMan]

A big thank you to all who responded. I really appreciate it.

[alacran]

Old Mtn Man somehow I missed the part were the wizards that be in CO determined that a .50 prb was insufficient  for elk. That will work to your advantage because that extra pound in the .54 will make it a better offhand rifle. If I ever build another Isaac Haines I will build a .54 or a .58.. I would base it on RCA # 80 and either use a wood box or skip the box altogether. Like #80 I would build it out of walnut.

[OldMtnMan]

Did Isaac ever use walnut?

[rich pierce]

Did Isaac ever use walnut?

Yes

[Pukka Bundook]

Pete,

Hold your horses and do some checking on barrel weights and calibres.

This from Dunlap;
"The “C” model barrel is 1/16 of an inch larger across the flats; therefore, increasing
 the weight by approximately 1/2 a pound over the same caliber “B” model barrel"


That means half a pound heavier in Same calibre, between B and C profiles,   
The difference between a  B in .50 and a "C" in .54 is going to be Less.

I know what you wrote earlier about the barrel weights, but some of those are wrong, because when they write "4.2 Lbs, they mean 4 lb 2 ounces.

If they were Right in what you posted above,  I am sure they mean  3 lb 11 ounces and 4 lb three ounces, so we still come back to half a pound difference at Very most, as Dunlap says.

I'd look at the weights a Lot closer before I decided if I were you.
I have one I made for my son, 38" Haines barrel in C weight,  and I wouldn't want it any lighter for anything.

[Darkhorse]

Darkhorse..........I love your choices of how you build the guns. We think alike and I couldn't ask for anymore if mine turn out like yours. You're a good builder. Even if you think you aren't. I'm used one of your gun pictures as a desktop wallpaper.

Tell what grade of wood you choose and what did you use for stain/finish?

Thanks

I bought a LH Isaac Haines stock from Track in fancy maple. I'm not a fan of Track's grading system as I prefer more curl. At least there's some curl. I stained with LMF Nut Brown and finished with 8 coats of Chambers Original oil finish hand rubbed into the wood. I removed some of the shine with a piece of scuff pad.
I ordered the barrel from Rice barrel co. with no dovetails cut.
I ordered the Large Siler from Chambers.
The set triggers from Davis.
Most of the other stuff from Track. Steel parts were browned dark with LMF Browning solution.
I've made a few changes over the years. When I started having problems with my eyesight I made a simple peep for the rear, then sprayed it with flat black primer followed by flat black top coat, this was done to help reduce glare. I also made a new, taller, front sight to go with the peep. I also made a new ramrod early this spring.
OldMtnMan, I'm glad you like my little rifle. I'm real fond of her myself.

[OldMtnMan]

Pete,

Hold your horses and do some checking on barrel weights and calibres.

This from Dunlap;
"The “C” model barrel is 1/16 of an inch larger across the flats; therefore, increasing
 the weight by approximately 1/2 a pound over the same caliber “B” model barrel"


That means half a pound heavier in Same calibre, between B and C profiles,   
The difference between a  B in .50 and a "C" in .54 is going to be Less.

I know what you wrote earlier about the barrel weights, but some of those are wrong, because when they write "4.2 Lbs, they mean 4 lb 2 ounces.

If they were Right in what you posted above,  I am sure they mean  3 lb 11 ounces and 4 lb three ounces, so we still come back to half a pound difference at Very most, as Dunlap says.

I'd look at the weights a Lot closer before I decided if I were you.
I have one I made for my son, 38" Haines barrel in C weight,  and I wouldn't want it any lighter for anything.

After looking at the chart again I believe you're right. The B barrel in .45 is 4 lbs, so the B barrel in .50 should be about 1.2 lb lighter. 3 lb 11 oz makes more sense.

That makes the decision much easier. I'll use the C barrel in .54 and leave my option for elk open.

Thanks.

[OldMtnMan]

Darkhorse..........I love your choices of how you build the guns. We think alike and I couldn't ask for anymore if mine turn out like yours. You're a good builder. Even if you think you aren't. I'm used one of your gun pictures as a desktop wallpaper.

Tell what grade of wood you choose and what did you use for stain/finish?

Thanks

I bought a LH Isaac Haines stock from Track in fancy maple. I'm not a fan of Track's grading system as I prefer more curl. At least there's some curl. I stained with LMF Nut Brown and finished with 8 coats of Chambers Original oil finish hand rubbed into the wood. I removed some of the shine with a piece of scuff pad.
I ordered the barrel from Rice barrel co. with no dovetails cut.
I ordered the Large Siler from Chambers.
The set triggers from Davis.
Most of the other stuff from Track. Steel parts were browned dark with LMF Browning solution.
I've made a few changes over the years. When I started having problems with my eyesight I made a simple peep for the rear, then sprayed it with flat black primer followed by flat black top coat, this was done to help reduce glare. I also made a new, taller, front sight to go with the peep. I also made a new ramrod early this spring.
OldMtnMan, I'm glad you like my little rifle. I'm real fond of her myself.

Jim says his standard stock has quite a bit of figure. I'll just go with it and try and match your color.

Thanks.

[Darkhorse]

I won't  use the Nut Brown again. To me, it sorta muddied the grain and reduced the amount of curl. After 15 years now it looks better than it did. I only used it because I wanted the stock and barrel dark for Turkey Hunting. I think Lancaster Maple or Honey Maple would look good. Maybe American Walnut to get less red, more brown.
This is a plain stock stained with LMF Lancaster Maple and 8 coats of the Chambers finish. The shine has not been knocked back. Out in the sun you can just look down into the rifle like looking through water. This rifle will be refinished after the first of the year to correct mistakes I made in the architecture and rebrowned to get it darker.