Author Topic: Rifleman's Horn (Read 5058 times)

Mark Elliott · « **on:** September 01, 2018, 02:14:46 AM »

This is a horn that I just finished for an Model 1812 Rifleman's pouch. It is not exactly historically correct. It should have a brass tip with a ring attachment, and the filler plug should be tuned down to take a strap. At least that is what a pair of Allegheny Arsenal horns I saw looked like. However, that is not what the customer wanted. I still think it turned out pretty well if you are not really picky about the historical details.

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #1 on:** September 01, 2018, 03:19:28 PM »

Man that is a Good looking horn, HC or not. Great finish, is that AF?

Tim

wattlebuster · « **Reply #2 on:** September 01, 2018, 03:34:51 PM »

I like it

Lobo · « **Reply #3 on:** September 01, 2018, 03:45:08 PM »

That shines.

David Rase · « **Reply #4 on:** September 01, 2018, 04:40:52 PM »

Mark,
Do you have the photos of the original horns or are they in a book? I am interested in what they looked like. Your horn looks very plausible.
David

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #5 on:** September 01, 2018, 06:12:31 PM »

Yes Tim, that is AF. That is what I use most of the time. It takes at least four applications to get a good result.

David, I will have to rework the photos for this format, but I will put them up sometime today.

Greg Pennell · « **Reply #6 on:** September 01, 2018, 09:25:55 PM »

Super nice horn, Mark! Is that an applied/screw tip?

Greg

aaronc · « **Reply #7 on:** September 01, 2018, 10:45:08 PM »

Beautiful horn,..nice color.

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #8 on:** September 01, 2018, 11:07:20 PM »

The horn has a plain screw tip.

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #9 on:** September 02, 2018, 12:19:25 AM »

Here are some of the photos I have of an original horn that was identified to me as from the Allegheny Arsenal.

Fowler610 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 02, 2018, 02:33:35 AM »

Very nice horn you made. So, on the original horn, it must have hung tip down when worn? Bad news if your spring breaks during the march.

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #11 on:** September 02, 2018, 02:46:54 AM »

Mark,
That's a very nice horn you made and an interesting original. Thanks for posting them.

The location of the ring on the original is puzzling to me. Assuming that's where the strap attaches, I would have expected the ring to be 180 degrees from where it is. But obviously it worked for the owner.

-Ron

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #12 on:** September 02, 2018, 03:14:43 AM »

I was shown two nearly identical original horns, so the one shown was not a one off. It was the pattern that was ordered and issued to riflemen. Apparently, the Army wanted the horn to hang pointing down.

45-110 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 02, 2018, 09:45:28 PM »

Mark
where you able to measure the horn for length and maybe diameter? i would like to duplicate the horn and pouch set. curious if the horn is small in size like the rifleman's pouch/bag. the position of the ring holds the horn close to the body?
kw

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #14 on:** September 03, 2018, 04:06:54 AM »

I did not take measurements, but I purchased a couple of horns to reproduce it the same day I examined it. The approximate measurements are about 2 3/4" diameter at the base and about 13-14" around the outside curve from the end of the filler plug to the tip. The horn I made is a little bigger and longer than that at about 2 7/8" at the base and about 17" from the tip of the filler plug to the tip of the stopper. Of course, I used a different kind of tip that is much longer.

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #15 on:** September 03, 2018, 03:10:36 PM »

I wouldn't think the horn was intended to hang tip down. With the strap attached to the finial it would move/slip. It looks like it was set up to hang with the tip pointed in towards the body. Just my 2CW.
TOTW used to carry a tip that a ring could be attached to with some work, unfortunately they have been out of stock for sometime. I don't think it would take much to make one up but the cast spout would be neat.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/81/3/SPOUT-KIT-B

Tim

Marcruger · « **Reply #16 on:** September 03, 2018, 04:37:04 PM »

Mark, I wouldn't be too concerned about it being "historically correct" when a horn is that fine looking. I love the subtle but rich finishes, and the turning of the base plug. That is a beauty.

Regarding that original horn, who knows, maybe it was meant to be hung tip down. It has that brass valve, so perhaps the maker trusted that.

Jim Webb (who owned 200 original bags) noted that many bags had very short horn hanger straps. The horn was simply inverted 180 degrees to pour powder. No need to tip the whole horn up, you just flip it over. That is why the straps can be short. All of this came to mind when I saw the ring hanging the old horn tip down. One thing is for sure, if it is hanging tip-down, and you operate the valve, you get powder with no other movement.

Just my 2 cents worth, and I am no expert. Best wishes, and God Bless, Marc

j. pease · « **Reply #17 on:** September 03, 2018, 04:54:13 PM »

The two horns examined by Mark where my horns. The larger is 13 1/2” around the outside curve and 2 5/8” diameter. The smaller horn is 11” and 2 35”. I have seen several of these and all have rings placed the snake. I do know of one with original strap. When you see how it hangs with the strap you see it curves into body, not upside down

j. pease · « **Reply #18 on:** September 03, 2018, 05:02:21 PM »

there is a typographical error, it should say the rings were placed in same place, sorry for my typing.

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #19 on:** September 03, 2018, 05:53:25 PM »

Thanks for the additional Pix Jim. Are the tips made up from sheet or are they cast?

Thanks, Tim

45-110 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 03, 2018, 07:49:01 PM »

With the presented reference material, I am all amped up to recreate one. Too bad the brass casting set at TOW is out of stock, the parts would be a grate start. I have never tried to thread wood, would a normal metal die and tap work or are they different so as to get non fuzzy or torn threads?
best kw

j. pease · « **Reply #21 on:** September 03, 2018, 08:09:39 PM »

It is made with sheet brass Jim

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #22 on:** September 03, 2018, 09:00:38 PM »

If you click on the link to TOTW I posted above you will see an example of a horn done using the valve, FWIW it is listed as a copy of a U.S. Arsenal horn, in The Powder Flask Book by Ray Riling.
What the heck, here it is again:

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/81/3/SPOUT-KIT-B

Tim C.

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #23 on:** September 03, 2018, 10:53:51 PM »

Quote from: Tim Crosby on September 03, 2018, 09:00:38 PM

If you click on the link to TOTW I posted above you will see an example of a horn done using the valve, FWIW it is listed as a copy of a U.S. Arsenal horn, in The Powder Flask Book by Ray Riling.
What the heck, here it is again:

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/81/3/SPOUT-KIT-B

Tim C.

I was referred to Mike Lea as a source for these tips. Unfortunately, My only contact for him was on FB and I did not hear back from him until I was almost done with this horn. He said that he had one kit that had not been assembled and was planning to make more. The price given was $78. His phone number is 614 291-4757.

45-110 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 04, 2018, 03:00:21 PM »

All the ref. material I have seen on the M1803 pouch seems to show the horn straps to be set up for a flask attachment. How would the base filler plug be attached to the sling? Trying to figure out the connection here. There is an original pouch/flask set on Ebay right now for big money.
kw

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Author Topic: Rifleman's Horn (Read 5058 times)

Lobo

Fowler610