Author Topic: Tang problem (Read 2607 times)

Craig Wilcox · « **on:** September 06, 2018, 02:32:52 AM »

When I first saw Herman Rupp's 1793 rifle, I kinda fell in love with it. Then I found that several supply houses had kits to build one. Wow - my chance for a beautiful rifle - love to make things/ Made a lot of the kind that we don't speak of here, but never a flint lock.

So, I got my kit from MBS. Terry Jo and Ryan were both friendly and helpful. Shortly, I received the kit and things, and started in on it.
It was partially pre-carved, and the barrel channel cut in, but not fitted.
So, Eager Beaver here got busy and inletted that octagon to round, .45 cal barrel. Did a pretty fair job of that and the lock inletting.
But - remember that I had only seen a few pictures of that masterpiece.
Today I received my disc from KRA with all the Lehigh pics. And found that every one of them has a tang with what I call an "acorn" shape. And mine has a tapered tang that ends flat!
Can only fault myself for a failure to do thorough research.
So, how to correct? My idea is to take some of the left-over steel from building airplanes (4130), and silver-solder it on the end of the tang, then cut the correct shape, then inlet the result.
Comments and ideas greatly appreciated!
Maybe if I didn't rush into this quite so quickly...…. Not the end of the world, just the end of Craig's tang!

Bill Raby · « **Reply #1 on:** September 06, 2018, 02:46:21 AM »

First choice would be to just buy a new tang that is large enough to cut out the shape you want. If you want to add metal to the end of the tang, don't silver solder. The seam will be obvious. Call MBS and find out what alloy steel the tang is made of then WELD more that to the end. But I would just buy a new tang.

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #2 on:** September 06, 2018, 03:14:51 AM »

Bill, I appreciate the suggestion. If I put on a whole new tang, though, the current inlet would have to be filled in. I may be able to get one of my friends to weld the new piece on, and that would avoid a line.
I really want to mostly stay with the current inlet. Don't mind cutting out a bit more wood, but filling it would be awkward.

Mauser06 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 06, 2018, 04:03:14 AM »

Fill the inlet with a matching piece of wood. File the tang you have into the shape you want. Re-inlet.

Or just leave it as is.

Or have metal added to the tang

Or have a new plug and tang put on

I called Colerain about getting a new plug/tang for a barrel. I was told they are machined on the barrel and they'd put one in but I'd have to send the barrel in. Shipping a barrel 2 ways cost a few bucks...

54ball · « **Reply #4 on:** September 06, 2018, 04:41:57 AM »

Ultimately it's up to you but in my opinion what's done is done.
Personally I think you have bigger fish to fry, namely just building the rifle.

One thing that pops in my mind that is the least invasive is to mimic the thumbnail (acorn) tang finial with either an inscized line or a releaved line around the tang.
You see this sometimes on flat tang Lancasters where the thumbnail is carved in behind a flat tang.

Goo · « **Reply #5 on:** September 06, 2018, 05:37:20 AM »

If you add steel make certain it is mild steel. Any higher carbon alloy will be impossible to fileafter its heated during welding or silver soldering.

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #6 on:** September 06, 2018, 05:47:59 PM »

Guys, many thanks for the ideas and suggestions.
I believe that I will do as 54Ball suggests - what is done, is done. I can certainly incise a thumbnail at the back of the tang.
But, if I had a big enough piece of the same maple, I would have cut the existing tang to straight sides and a thumbnail on the end. However, as this is a pre-carve, there are only little bits here and there. if I had not cut the excess off the butt into staining samples, it would have done the job nicely.
Again, I appreciate your brain work!

smallpatch · « **Reply #7 on:** September 06, 2018, 06:14:49 PM »

There are soooooooo many other things to get right for a proper Lehigh. Concentrate on those. This is very minor.

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #8 on:** September 06, 2018, 06:38:02 PM »

Thank you, Dave. I always value your opinions on things. And as this is my first LR, I know it won't be in any beauty contests! I do have a habit of using my own ideas for stock carving. carved a squirrel on an oak limb on one, and an elephant in the jungle for another. And numerous deer or oak or myrtle leaves! Danged individualist, I guess! I am having fun with the build of the Rupp gun! And that is the whole point for me - doing enjoyable things.

LRB · « **Reply #9 on:** September 06, 2018, 09:47:20 PM »

I would suggest to file the top of the tang down, then silver braze a suitably oversized piece of mild steel back on it, shape it as you want. 3/32" sheet steel may do it, or even a piece of 1/8".

alacran · « **Reply #10 on:** September 11, 2018, 02:50:25 PM »

I have lengthened a tang by heating it cherry red and beating it . it is amazing how much you can get a tang to grow.
The tang needs not to be as thick as they are made.
Small patch is right, you have bigger fish to fry.

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #11 on:** September 11, 2018, 03:44:31 PM »

Craig,

I’m not completely satisfied with mine either. On the KRA disc, it’s sort of rounded more than having the little sharp wings. Now looking at it, I believe it had the points but they are worn off from time. I’ve also relied carved around the tang. The original is completely incised and not in a fashion that looks all that great. Today’s standards focus on the art and beauty rather than functionality and then art. That’s what I see anyhow. Just remember, it’s a Craig Wilcox rifle based off of H Rupp. Don’t sweat it!!

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #12 on:** September 11, 2018, 04:20:30 PM »

Thanks, brother. And you are right about it being mine, BASED on ol' Herman's! Kind of the way I am approaching it all along.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #13 on:** September 11, 2018, 05:02:44 PM »

Another thought Craig, and I only put it here as it is another option, is an iron inlay behind the existing tang.
Not saying I'd do it, but another option!

smallpatch · « **Reply #14 on:** September 11, 2018, 05:45:28 PM »

Again,
You've got more serious items to fret over...... please don't do elephants or oak leaves, or squirrels.
You are fretting over whether the finial on your tang is the same, but considering carving like that?

45-110 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 11, 2018, 05:52:17 PM »

just have a piece mig or tig welded on, then re work no big deal. you can leave the pug installed while you weld the mild steel piece on. wrap a wet rag around breech and have it done. anyone of your local welders or car restoration guys can do it. chamfer the edges of both parts first an show them what you want. probably a $10 fix.
best
kw

Scota4570 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 11, 2018, 06:51:31 PM »

I tend to obsess over details. The parts sets seem to be cut for generic tangs. If the rifle being represented has a different tang, what is that about? Lock inlets can be in the wrong place. With run of the mill prevcarves it seems that the more they do for you the more trouble they make. At this point I will probably never get a regular precarve again.

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #17 on:** September 11, 2018, 10:47:33 PM »

Scota, others - Agree that a lot of kits are not accurate enough, but this was my own doings. Proper research would have me making the "wedge" tang into a more slender, parallel-sided tang with the proper finial on it.

No major harm done, I will incise the proper shape aft of the tang end. This is a first flintlock for me, and there are bound to be more little goofs along the way.

And no, not going to decorate the stock as I have on previous work - totally different type of firearm here. There is always some latitude for personal expression, this tang will just have to be part of that. But no squirrels or chipmunks on this one!

Robby · « **Reply #18 on:** September 11, 2018, 11:14:47 PM »

You are set on getting it right and there is nothing wrong with that. If you complete the gun perfectly, that tang will be the first thing you look at every time you pick it up, a real craw sticker. Lot of good ideas have been presented, me(?), I weld a piece on and finish it properly. All the best and good luck!!!!
Robby

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #19 on:** September 11, 2018, 11:17:13 PM »

Thanks, Robby! You have a valid point. I doubt, however, that this will be my only "glaring error!"

These rifles are a great deal different from the ones that I have done in the past.

Robby · « **Reply #20 on:** September 11, 2018, 11:42:22 PM »

Then you just deal with each 'glaring error' as it appears. Plan ahead and don't look for trouble, it'll find you all on its own.
Robin

mark brier · « **Reply #21 on:** September 12, 2018, 01:24:45 AM »

Commercial tangs are plenty thick enough. Got a forge? Heat it up and stretch some metal out
Mark Brier

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #22 on:** September 12, 2018, 01:55:46 AM »

Alas, my friends, I have no forge. Maybe one day....

alacran · « **Reply #23 on:** September 12, 2018, 01:19:38 PM »

Don't need a forge. Propane or MAP gas will do the job. You just need something to beat it on. like the anvil side of a vise. Those breech plug tangs are soft enough steel.

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #24 on:** September 12, 2018, 06:36:41 PM »

You can make that design on the H Rupp rifle work with a square tang. I wouldn't worry about it.

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Author Topic: Tang problem (Read 2607 times)

54ball