Nose Cap vs. Plain?

[Smokey Plainsman]

Hey everyone and I AM SORRY in advance. I realize I have posted more than my fair share of threads lately and I don't mean to be a burden to anyone here. I have lots of questions as I finalize the specs for a custom rifle I am going to have built by Tennessee Valley Muzzleloaders (TVM).

I am now absolutely in shambles in deciding weather or not to get a nose cap on the gun, or leave the wood plain. I really enjoy both looks. The "theme" is a simple southern mountain style percussion rifle. I have pondered for days on the matter, and cannot come to a good conclusion at this time, and as such am seeking input from the knowledge and gracious members of this board.

What are your thoughts on nose caps? Are they a needed or useful item, or mainly for looks? Do you prefer their appearance, or do you like the all wooden look?

Thanks again my friends and have a good one! 

-Earl

[Dennis Glazener]

I think they were primarily for looks but that said I still think I would have one installed.
Dennis

[smart dog]

Hi Earl,
The southern mountain rifles from TVM that I have seen have stocks that look like their Lancaster, Virginia, late Lancaster, fowler, etc, guns.  It seems to me they just swap out hardware but use the same stock patterns for their different models.  Were you able to order a different lock other than a Siler? They are well made but the SMR is not particularly true to many of the features we tend to identify with southern mountain rifles other than it does not have brass hardware.  That said, I would choose whatever feature you like and not worry too much about HC. Most SMRs, but not all, that I have seen have iron muzzle caps or muzzle cap-like decoration. Certainly, a true muzzle cap protects the stock from splitting so it serves more than just a decorative function.  If you visit our virtual library of photos and click on the southern collection, you can see many originals that may help guide you.

dave

[Ky-Flinter]

Nose cap?  Yes, and my choice would be a poured pewter one.

-Ron

[Dave Marsh]

Earl, +1 on what Dave said.  I looked at that website and a lot of the stocks look to be the same with different parts.  I am by no means an expert or a builder but that is what I see too.  If I were you I would get a Kibler Southern Mountain kit.  I am in the process of completing his Colonial kit and now have it in the white.  If I can do it anyone can.  Gives you a feeling of accomplishment and is a learning experience.  You can have Jim finish it in the white for you if you don't want to put it together.  I would communicate with Jim on what you want.  I understand from others that TVM.s guns are quality guns but you seem to be trying for HC and I don't see it in the TVM  Tennessee or Southern.   Good luck whatever you decide but it is a lot of money that you are pondering spending so you don't want to be sorry when all is said and done.  I don't remember from your other posts if you are a lefty or not.  If you are then Jim cannot help you with his kit.  Just my opinion.

Dave

[WadePatton]

Yep, unfortunately most all the kit packages that were for sale, when I was shopping them some years back, included the nothing-wrong-with-it-but-certainly-not-Southern Siler lock.

If you have that gun assembled with that lock, it won't ever look like the most common Southern guns which were nearly always built with English locks.  And this drove me nuts and I wound up never buying a kit.  I started with a plank and no longer look at kit packages. 

Poured endcaps are what I like and have seen on more originals than otherwise. There might be an upcharge. 

[Mike Brooks]

I'd go with the Kibler, can't get more authentic than that. But, Either way I'd put a nose cap on it if it's fully mounted otherwise. If it were a "Po Boy" I might leave it off.

[Craig Wilcox]

Earl, don't worry about too many questions - that is one of the reasons we have this forum.

On the rifle I am building, a Lehigh H. Rupp, nose caps are usually left open at the front.  But I can't bear exposing all that end grain!  So ,my muzzle cap will; be closed in front.

Don't know WHY he did it, but ol' Herman Rupp had added brass "flames" at the back of the muzzle cap.  Something I have not seen on other rifles, but I am gonna do my darndest to have them on mine!

[hanshi]

I have both a SMR and a Tn style from TVM.  The SMR has a nosecap but the Tn is a poorboy and doesn't have one.  Other than a poorboy rifle, I like nosecaps on rifles.

Kibler rifles has been mentioned and for good reason.  They cost a bit more than TVM's offerings but are more authentic.  The stocks are machine carved to precise dimensions and are all identical and authentic.  Oh, and TVM's various rifle styles have stocks that are plainly very different.  Since they are all carved by hand from a plank any two of the same style will have noticeable differences. 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks, gang!

I should have mentioned I am going to get their Tennessee rifle, which at least to me, bears a resemblance to the southern mountain guns I've seen photos of. I also talked with TVM and they have Siler Mountain percussion locks which should be more correct for the gun. I will be ordering all browned hardware, 42" long A-weigh swamped barrel in .40 caliber, lock bolts (no lock plate) with a tallow hole in the stock. I'll probably upgrade the wood to get more figure but other than that, I am wanting a plain simple rifle.





I am not going to do a kit. I know Kibler's kits are simple, but I am not a kit person. Period. Also he does not offer and percussion models which is "what I'm going for" as it were. Thanks all!!

[Darkhorse]

Poured pewter nosecap. Barewood or Brass nosecap, nothing looks as trim as a poured pewter cap. And from what I've read on this forum very appropriate to a Southern Mountain Rifle. I doubt though that TVM will perform this service for you. An option may be to buy your rifle in the white and have someone pour your nosecap and finish the wood to your specs.

[Smokey Plainsman]

Poured pewter nosecap. Barewood or Brass nosecap, nothing looks as trim as a poured pewter cap. And from what I've read on this forum very appropriate to a Southern Mountain Rifle. I doubt though that TVM will perform this service for you. An option may be to buy your rifle in the white and have someone pour your nosecap and finish the wood to your specs.

BEAUT!!!

Kind of leaning towards a browned cap at this point... still deciding, so hard!! 

Also wondering if I should get an entry pipe, too.

[Mike Brooks]

I have seen a FEW originals with poured pewter nose caps but not many. Most of what I see on old guns is iron. maybe it's just me, I don't know.  I believe the "Woodbury school" has popularized the pewter nose cap to where it is used far more now than it was in the old days.

[Marcruger]

I like a nose cap for protection from splitting, and to keep the cleaning liquids off the end of the stock.  God Bless,   Marc

[JTR]

I have seen a FEW originals with poured pewter nose caps but not many. Most of what I see on old guns is iron. maybe it's just me, I don't know.  I believe the "Woodbury school" has popularized the pewter nose cap to where it is used far more now than it was in the old days.

I agree with Mike.

Most that I've seen have iron or no cap at all. When I see one with a poured cap my first thought is that its a modern rifle faked up to look like an antique.
Once in a blue moon its a old one with a poured muzzle cap.
John

[Dennis Glazener]

I have seen a FEW originals with poured pewter nose caps but not many. Most of what I see on old guns is iron. maybe it's just me, I don't know.  I believe the "Woodbury school" has popularized the pewter nose cap to where it is used far more now than it was in the old days.

I agree with Mike.

Most that I've seen have iron or no cap at all. When I see one with a poured cap my first thought is that its a modern rifle faked up to look like an antique.
Once in a blue moon its a old one with a poured muzzle cap.
John

I agree with both Mike and John, I have always thought most earlier SMR's were made with iron nose caps or left off completely. I always thought the poured pewter caps were replacements done in later life of the rifle. Not saying that some were not made with pewter but not as many as some think.
Dennis

[Mike Brooks]

I like a nose cap for protection from splitting, and to keep the cleaning liquids off the end of the stock.  God Bless,   Marc

Never seen one without a nose cap split.

[Darkhorse]

I agree with you Mike, when I watched the video and saw how Hershel House poured that pewter cap I just had to do one. I haven't regretted it at all. However I seem to remember a post or two within maybe the last year concerning original poured pewter nosecaps on SM rifles. Some of those were really elaborate and a couple were not well done at all.
Does anybody recall the posts I'm talking about?

[Darkhorse]

These are some of the posts I referred too, I thought there was more. Sometimes (often) my memory fails me.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=44574.msg436503#msg436503

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=42587.msg415184#msg415184

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=42587.msg415184#msg415184

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Craig, you know that that Rupp nose cap is closed on the end, right?   And that the wings are added as inlays after the nose piece was inlet, right?

[hanshi]

I can't argue with your choice of rifles but I much prefer flint.  Plus I like their SMR somewhat more than I like their TN style.  Generic they may be, but the quality is top shelf.

[Smokey Plainsman]

I can't argue with your choice of rifles but I much prefer flint.  Plus I like their SMR somewhat more than I like their TN style.  Generic they may be, but the quality is top shelf.

Well thank you for voicing that you much prefer flint. I much prefer percussion.

I suppose, at day's end, I'm not too hung up on being 110% historically perfect. I think I'm leaning towards a browned cap.

[flinchrocket]

Can't go wrong with browned steel.

[WadePatton]

...
I suppose, at day's end, I'm not too hung up on being 110% historically perfect. I think I'm leaning towards a browned cap.

Hey Earl,

It's really difficult to get to 100%. But we all have ideas and notions and the more we study, the more we might want to discuss the subtleties and minutia.  We're a long ways from that here.

Hope you get that gun soon and start working up your load, that's where all the fun is--besides sitting in the squirrel zone waiting for the antlered acorn eater.

Also, I'd be stocking up on caps.  They only work once each and I've heard of shortages in recent years, so get 'em while they're handy. It'd be miserable to suffer a shortage of sparks when a man wanted them.

[stuart cee dub]

Of the percussion locks the Siler mountain is my favorite SmokyMountain.
It's a tough little lock and would be a better match stylistically for a SMR than the Germanic Siler

I have both percussion and flint and frankly shoot percussion much more accurately because I still flinch on the flash in the pan .

The critical bit of fitting is to make sure the drum is fully supported underneath by the lock cut out otherwise the drum and it's threaded connection to the barrel will take a pounding .
Hopefully they'll fit this correctly .It's really important that they do otherwise you'll end up having to have the lock plate welded up and re-file the half circle then rebrown if there is a gap when you receive your rifle.
 
Also you need a sufficiently thick barrel wall to grip the threaded section of the drum .This has been much discussed in the past on this forum.
 
I never had a problem with a gun without a nosecap especially if the wood is well sealed .