Ramrod Tips?

[Smokey Plainsman]

What are some HISTORICALLY CORRECT examples of ramrod tips in the 18th and early 19th centuries?

Today we use rods with 8-32 to 10-32 threaded tips, where we screw in modern style brass button jags and ball screws and stuff.

Did such things exist back then? How did they remove a stuck ball? What were there ramrods and accessories REALLY like back then?? 

-Smokey P.

[Marcruger]

If you check out Jim Webb’s wonderful book on original worms, pullers and jags, you’ll see most had a threaded end. If the rod did not have a threaded metal tip, when I am at a loss how a puller or worm could be used. God Bless, and best wishes, Marc

[rich pierce]

Typical ramrod tips for the end that is in the ramrod hole were long, tapered iron tips that were made of sheet iron and having a brazed seam. This was threaded for a worm and possibly a ball puller. I don’t know if examples of jags from the 1700s. The business end of the ramrod, at the muzzle, often swelled quite a bit if there was no metal reinforcement. Bob Leinemann’s new book on Moravian rifles shows an early rifle with a stout diameter at the muzzle, reinforced by a brass cylinder open at the end.

What we commonly see as ramrod tips today (parallel-sided, non-tapered ramrod tips threaded 8-32 and fitted with turned jags) appear to be percussion era developments.

[Smokey Plainsman]

Interesting.

I wonder if anyone makes a repro of the old style tips? You'd think with so many wanting to be HC/PC someone would.

[Dave Marsh]

Right here on this website.

americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14341.0


Dave

[Smokey Plainsman]

Right here on this website.

americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14341.0


Dave

Neat! Are these tips meant to be permanently attached to the end of the rod?

[PPatch]

Right here on this website.

americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14341.0

Neat! Are these tips meant to be permanently attached to the end of the rod?

Yes, just as you would with the common style of feral, you inlet the end of the RR into the feral and then drill crosswise to install a brass (or steel) rivet.  Some also use epoxy.


dave


dave

[rich pierce]

I’ve made a couple. I’m not too good at it. Jim Chambers and Larry Callahan offer ones machined from round stock. No brazed seam and not wonky like mine.

[Dennis Glazener]

The rr tips that Jim Kibler includes in his SMR kit are close, they are solid, not brazed but they look period correct. Not sure if the ones he includes in his Lancaster kit are the same or not. Possibly he sells them separately.

I made a few on the lathe and quit due to the time it took to properly make them. Never tried to make the brazed type.
Dennis

[Mark Elliott]

I almost always make a brazed or welded steel ferrule rolled from sheet metal to form a slender cone.    I have a template to make them.   The brazed ones are super easy to make.   The welded one, not so much.  I would only make a welded one for a special gun.   Ferrules like I make are  exactly what I have seen on originals that had a ferrule.   Some ramrods had the ferrule with a wiper brazed permanently in.    The wiper would just stick out the muzzle end.    These were typically pretty small for small diameter bores.    I have seen such ferrules from guns made before the American Revolution through into the late flint and early percussion era.    I have seen more late guns with such ferrules than early guns, most likely because original ramrods do not survive.

[scottmc]

Also, Brad Emig at Cabin Creek machines and sells them.  They Are nice and stout, tapered but probably heavier than the the sheet metal variety but they look the part.

[B.Barker]

[Smokey Plainsman]

Say! That looks amazing! 

This page is bookmarked. THANK YOU all for the leads. I have a TVM rifle awaiting production and want all of my accouterments to be historically correct, or nearly so. I’ve sourced fine hickory blanks with a straight grain and these tips will be excellent for my purposes!

So what about the devices that screw into these tips? Are the common jags, ball screws, and worms available widely of a historically correct style?

[rich pierce]

Larry Callahan, Brad Emig, and others supply authentic tow worms and ball pullers.

[Smokey Plainsman]

Larry Callahan, Brad Emig, and others supply authentic tow worms and ball pullers.

Thank you! So what would have been used to push the ball down the barrel? The other, bare wood end of the rod perhaps? I assume the bare wood part might be belled out to near bore diameter, the the steel ferrules mentioned above being the part inserted into the ramrod thimbles and into the stock until needed? Just guessing on that part.

[rich pierce]

Fat end usually is used to ram the ball.  Other end with the threaded tip goes in the gunstock.

[Smokey Plainsman]

Fat end usually is used to ram the ball.  Other end with the threaded tip goes in the gunstock.

Thank you Mr. Pierce!

I assume tow would have been a preferred cleaning material for use with the worm? Would a shooter perhaps fire a few shots from his rifle, using the enlarged exposed wood portion at the front of the rod to seat the balls, then when loading became a bit difficult he’d thread his worm to the metal ferrule on the other end of the rod and use a bit of toe (perhaps moistened?) to swab the barrel?

Guys I thank you SO MUCH. This has been something I’ve always pondered on. I feel I’ve learned more about correct historical ramrod usage and accessories since I posted this thread than at any other time. I am continually amazed at the knowledge here and the graciousness from those willing to share it.

I am new on the traditional muzzleloading road, with my first ever custom order ever submitted (to Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading). I’m in the military about to be deployed to Afghanistan so it will be a wonderful treat to return home to! In the meantime I will continue my learning and research on our wonderful muzzleloading history! 

-Dillon

[mossyhorn]

Thank you for your service sir.

[rich pierce]

I’m not sure among hunters or military rifleman, that swabbing was done much except when it was time to clean the gun.  Maybe/probably wiping was done in shooting matches.  Of course during most hunting situations, a few shots a day would be a lot with a rifle. 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I wonder if cleaning patches were used during that time, or if cloth was too valuable and flax toe used instead?

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thank you for your service sir.

That is much appreciated, thank you as well!

[Clark Badgett]

I wonder if cleaning patches were used during that time, or if cloth was too valuable and flax toe used instead?

I've usually seen Tow as being referenced for cleaning. After you use it, rinse it out and keep it for later.

[Smokey Plainsman]

I wonder if cleaning patches were used during that time, or if cloth was too valuable and flax toe used instead?

I've usually seen Tow as being referenced for cleaning. After you use it, rinse it out and keep it for later.

Yes, I’ve heard it is reusable. Very cool. I predict it would take up less space than a bunch of cotton patches and would be more historically correct.

[Avlrc]

Here is an original ramrod tip. This rifle was made 1820 circa.  Rifle been in same family since new.

[Smokey Plainsman]

Extremely nice!! That is a gorgeous rod, to be sure. What a treasure!

I wish Larry Callahan had better photographs of his wares. A bit hard to discern them. His "multi tool" which is supposdely based off an original found in an Appalachian bag is MOST intriguing!

Brad Emig has some NICE tips for sure!