Continental stock missing barrels and locks

[Dennis Daigger]

I am posting the attached photos of a gunstock that I found at a gun show this spring that I am hoping to resurrect and turn into a hunting gun.  I don't know whether it was a flintlock or percussion.

First, does anyone out there have anything close to this that might give me clues to the missing parts?

Because of the single set trigger it is likely a double rifle or a cape gun.  I am looking for a pair of twist barrels and locks that might be suitable for use as this could be a significant shortcut to turning this into a functional gun.  Otherwise, I'll make the parts.
Thanks,
Dennis

[Pukka Bundook]

It's a very nice stock Dennis, but if you don't mind me saying so, you are going to have a tough row to hoe to make barrels and locks that fit.

Germanic barrels often were not twist, so that removes one obstacle from your path.
Going by the age, style , square-tailed locks and such, it was most likely percussion. No little cut-outs for flint cocks.  Pretty sure percussion originally.

Good luck with it!

[Mike Brooks]

Makes you wonder what hidey hole those barrels and locks are in...…. Some one has to have them just sitting somewhere wondering what ever happened to the stock.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Perhaps, did German citizens donate iron and steel scrap during WW2 like we did?

dave

[T*O*F]

did German citizens donate iron and steel scrap during WW2 like we did?

Probably not willingly!!

[smart dog]

Hi Dave,
Right, but maybe they had no choice.

dave

[Hudnut]

I have an English set of barrels that I got against the day I might use them to make a gun - but have too many projects as is.
Rifled/smooth combination, percussion.  Bores look to be good enough to justify the effort.
I'll take some photos and measurements, won't be able to post until tomorrow.

[Dennis Daigger]

I don't see how to reply to individual posts so will do all in one.

Yeah, Pukka Bundook, probably a painful exercise but could become a learning exercise for skills useful down the road.  Percussion would be fine but I'm not sure exactly what you are looking at.  I'm new to the muzzleloaders so am in the early "getting educated" stage.

Hudnut--Yes, please photograph the barrels. Thanks.
Dennis

[mountainman70]

Welcome to the forum,Dennis.. There is an entire education experience awaiting you with this one, from kindergarten thru post secondary !!! Plenty of lessons to be sure, but worth the effort, and these guys share what they have learned.
I am with Mike Brooks, the parts,if not made into tanks, are probably in some hidie hole.
Do a lot of research, look at pics on the internet,you might be surprised what you may find show up on fleabay.
Have a good time here,best regards, Dave 

[Hudnut]

Here is some information about the barrels:
30" long, 16ga and .50.  Birmingham 1813 and 1855 proofs.  Breechface to rear of underlug is 5.55.  Across the breeches is 1.92, barrels about .95 diameter.  Across the hooks is 1.01, gap between is about .31.  Outer rr pipe is resoldered.  The piece of top rib carrying the sight base is detached, must be resoldered.  Doubt that sight base is original.

[Dennis Daigger]

Thanks for the photos Hudnut.  Here are two dimension photos of my stock.  The outside dimension of the drip bars (did I get that right??) would be somewhere around 1.6" and the distance between the bolsters (again, right terminology???) is 1.2". I don't think your barrels would work into this.  What do you think?
Dennis

[mark brier]

By the picture of your stock looks to me like it more than likely had recessed breeches.
Mark Brier

[mark brier]

Finding barrels to drop in and fit your stock I'm afraid is just a pious hope. If your willing to put the work into it you can make your own barrels and standing breech to fit your stock. Also regulation of a double rifle is not for the faint of heart.
Mark Brier

[Dennis Daigger]

Mark,
Thanks for your observations.  I had never expected that there was a drop-in barrel set or locks out there ready to fall into my lap.  I have regulated double rifle barrels before so don't find that particularly intimidating.

I do, however, have a lot to learn about muzzleloaders.  Please tell me what a recessed breech is and why you think this gun had them.
Dennis

[mark brier]

Dennis, recessed breeches are steps filed into the breeches making flats on the sides that is narrower than then barrel width. This allows for a narrower and more graceful rifle without such a drastic change into the wrist. What makes me believe so on yours is the front view of where the standing breech is shows notches where the locks would lay in. Second is the underneath side picture of your stock notice the nice taper of the lock panels inwards towards the wrist. That can't be accomplished without recessed breeches. I will post a few different pictures to show what I am meaning.
Mark Brier

[Pukka Bundook]

Mark,

That's a very nice looking gun. Grand locks!
Re. inset breeches;
You may well be right it is hard to tell for me by looking at the stock photos.
Inset are much less common on Germanic than say English, so I can not be sure.

Are you going to show us more of this re-build you are working on?  (please!  :-)  )

Dennis,
Making a stock to take barrels and locks is a cake-walk compared to doing it the other way around, but I wish you every success!

[Hudnut]

Well, it doesn't look as if my barrels would be of any use for this project.

[Pukka Bundook]

Hudnut,

To be honest, the chances of finding barrels that Would fit are lower than a snowballs chances somewhere warm.
I still hope this will work out for Dennis, but the barrels will likely have to be either made, or re-ribbed and what -not with fitting breeches.

[Hudnut]

You're right.  The OP's gun would have been a combination gun, and I'm sitting on a set of rifle/shotgun barrels.  If the dimensions had been anywhere close, they might have been easier to adapt than to make up a set of barrels.  But the chances of them being close enough to be adaptable weren't good.

[Pukka Bundook]

Stranger things have happened Hudnut, but they are a long shot!

[smart dog]

Hi Dennis,
I don't think the original barrels had recessed breeches because I do not think it was a flintlock.  Because there are no notches or shoulders in the stock near the breech, I suspect the locks were percussion. In addition, the shapes of the lock mortices suggest that as well. 

dave

[Dennis Daigger]

Mark-thanks for the explanation and the photos and to others for input.  This is a great forum.

Dave-thanks for putting me on to this site.  The days since I first talked to you have been like the metaphor of drinking from a fire hose.  This site is extraordinary and just what I needed to get going with ML things.  This is quite a shift from my past and current gunmaking although I expect a lot of that experience will translate to this.

I got my Chambers English sporting rifle kit today and I think by the time I get done with it I will have a much better idea of how the ML parts work together to create a functional rifle.  Anyway, it's a start.

Before I set the continental stock aside I'm going to turn a wood dowel until it fits snugly at the back of the barrel channel and then turn a second at the same diameter so that I can lay them side by side and get some perspective of how the locks might lie in relation to them.  I can see pretty well how the tang and breech fit into stock and I think the barrels are doable but the locks are totally out of my wheel house.  I got a response from Bob Roller and he said he is doing no more work.  I'm hoping there is someone else out there that has experience with locks from these types of guns that might run into this thread and lend a hand.

[Hudnut]

In some ways, the locks are easier than the barrels.  Lockplates can be cut from steel plate, and carefully filed until they fit the inletting.  There are numerous commercial options for internal parts and hammers.