Patchbox selection help

[bnail]

I am intrigued by side opening Patch boxes and #66 in RCA is one of my Favorites.
I've only seen it associated with one original, and cannot find any new builds incorporating this style.
I would love to hear from someone who has experience with it.
what rifles could utilize it without being becoming a Frankenstein gun
and how/where is the catch employed?
I can post a cropped pic if its no copywrite problem.

[Mr. Bubbles]

Bucks County guns use side openers a lot.  Fred Lehto is your go-to guy on Bucks, but there are other styles that use it too.

[David Rase]

Geo. Fainot, a Lancaster builder used side opening captured lid boxes.
David

[bnail]

I saw that fainot lid project on another post and it bleq me away.  But what exsctly is a captured lid

[rich pierce]

I think in this context the term is being used to denote a lid completely surrounded by a single metal surround. That surround even keeps the lid away from the buttplate.

[flehto]

Never built a Bucks County  Pbox like on #66, but did partially use the finial design. The lid release push rod is under the toeplate. ...this is pretty standard on most BC Pboxes.....I  also  relocated the lid opener spring as per Taylor Sapergia.....as in the bottom pic.....Fred

[bnail]

Here is #66 by Dickert.
But i cannot find any  contemporary versions of it.
Do you suppose it would incorporate a similar latch and spring assembly?

[flehto]

That could be a BC Pbox...don't know how the lid release is made.  Most BC Pboxes are either straight sided in outline or have angled sides. Dickert's is in between.

[Daryl]

Those 2 are especially, nice, Fred.
 Tks for the pictures.

[M. E. Pering]

If you can't find a contemporary version, maybe you should consider fabricating your own?  Working with brass is actually easy, and quite fun, and has the added advantage of you being able to make exactly what you want.  Making curved hinges is a challenge, but since this is a side-opener, the task is considerably easier since it is pretty straight.

M. E. Pering

[Dobyns]

Moravian Gun Making of The American Revolution has photos of J Graeff, William Antes, Valentine Beck, Christian Oerter and attributed Andreas Albrecht.  There are several rifles pictured in the new book Moravian Gunmaking II, and I think there was another Dickert with side hinged patchbox in another of my books.

[bnail]

Moravian Gun Making of The American Revolution has photos of J Graeff, William Antes, Valentine Beck, Christian Oerter and attributed Andreas Albrecht.  There are several rifles pictured in the new book Moravian Gunmaking II, and I think there was another Dickert with side hinged patchbox in another of my books.

I think both of those Moravian Books would be immensly helpful.
do you happen to have a source for ordering? otherwise I'll start looking at ToW and Amazon

[Ky-Flinter]

Moravian Gun Making of The American Revolution is out of print, so watch ebay, Amazon, etc. but copies don't come up very often, and when they do, they are pricey.  You might try borrowing one thru the Inter-Library Loan program at your public library.

There is some info on Moravian Gunmaking II here.....  http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=49302.0   The book may be purchased at http://kentuckyriflefoundation.org/krf-store/   They have several nice books and also CD's showing longrifles.

-Ron

[bnail]

Do you recall which vol had Dickert's rifles?

[rich pierce]

Volume 1 of Rifles of Colonial America has this rifle as #66. It either has 2 wood screws in the top of the buttplate or one of them is the push rod for the patchbox release.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You will be best to create your own box, and Dixkert's #66 is very simple, reminiscent of the wooden butt trap.  I suspect that box opens from the end of the toe plate as a lot of BC lids did.  I see no button on the top, or on the butt plate.  It is possible it simply snaps shut like a clam shell under the tension of a hidden spring too, but the toe plate tip flexing is more likely.  Melchoir Fordney, a late Lancaster builder, used a similar device where the middle of the toe plate was narrowed and a cavity cut beneath, so that my pressing on it pushed a rod up and disengaged the latch.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You beat me to the post, Rich, and used study instead of speculation to solve the issue. 

[Ky-Flinter]

Do you recall which vol had Dickert's rifles?

Bruce,

They say your memory is the second thing to go.... and I can't remember the first thing.

I will check my books when I get home from work this evening.

I did a search here on the word "Dickert" and whadda ya know, the 4th entry is a side opening Dickert..... http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=46132.0

-Ron

[Dobyns]

Ron's link is to the same Dickert pictured in Thoughts on the Kentucky Rifle in its Golden Age, 3rd edition.  That IS a spectacular book, BTW.

edit:  I take that back, the patchbox is similar, but the photos in Ron's link are of a re-stocked Dickert barrel, lock, and sideplate.  I hadn't read the text prior to posting.

[blienemann]

Bnail,

The first Moravian book is out of print, has five side opening boxes by different makers of different styles, but you can get all the photos on a CD from the Kentucky Rifle Foundation for $20 plus shipping, I think.  The photos should provide the patterns and info you want.  The one Dickert rifle's box is not side opening.

The new Moravian Gunmaking II has four more side opening box long guns, but they are similar to what's shown in the first book.  You can probably get by with the photo CD, unless you enjoy history and the many other details on these early rifles.  Bob

[Ky-Flinter]

Thanks Bob.

-Ron