Smoothbore ALR Postal Match for September?

[longcruise]

Looks like one of my rifle targets shot from the bench.

[Maven]

Great target Taylor!  Maybe I should avoid shooting my smoothie for a few years too?

[alacran]

Very nice target Taylor!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Thanks guys!  This fowler has been really good to me in smoothbore round ball events over the years.  From time to time, there are targets on some of the smoothbore trails I've shot that were well out past 100 meters.  On these I load about 140 grains of powder, my tight patch/ball and allow as much barrel between the wedding band and the base of the front sight as the height of the front sight, up to about half of the barrel.  As long as I hold and follow through, I usually hit these distant gongs.  I engraved a deep longitudinal cut in the breech and tang down the centre of the barrel about two inches long.  This I fill with soap stone welder's markers pencil so that I have a reference to keep my windage in line with the target.  No rear sight above the plane of the barrel is the rule for trade gun matches.  Inaccuracy with a smoothbore comes from small charges that don't develop enough velocity to keep the ball from veering off left or right, up or down, like a beach ball or a volley ball which when it slows down, takes an unintentional direction.  If any of that makes sense.
Of note, the architecture of the Chambers' Pennsylvania fowler allows one to aim right along the top of the barrel without fear of being cracked in the face.  I'd love to see their English fowler like the one Bob in the Woods shoots!!

Who's up for a pistol postal match for October?  Same target.  Same range. Offhand, of course.

[Skychief]

Good shooting Taylor.  So I understand...are you able to get your cheekbone down on Jim's Pennsylvania fowler, as most do when rifle shooting, pain-free?

I ask because I've considered one of these fowlers for years, but haven't found an opportunity to shoot one.  My Tulle is a brute to shoot as I'm accustomed to (cheek into the comb and head crept forward). 

Thanks for sharing your experience and best regards, Skychief.

PS, I've drooled over this gun on display at Friendship.  Have any pictures of yours to share?

[alacran]

The French guns are engineered for maximum recoil. I dropped the nose on mine about 1/2 inch. It makes it better but it will never be as pleasant to shoot as an English pattern fowler. C'est La Vie

[alacran]

Taylor i'm in with the Pistola.

[Maven]

I'm in as well and will start a new thread with a link to the target for the October SB Postal Match forthwith.

[Skychief]

The French guns are engineered for maximum recoil. I dropped the nose on mine about 1/2 inch. It makes it better but it will never be as pleasant to shoot as an English pattern fowler. C'est La Vie

Describes my French smoothy to a T.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

All of the Tulle trade guns I have seen are cheek busters.  I think it is a combination of the high comb and the angle of the pitch of the butt.  With it's huge pitch it wants to ride up your shoulder when you touch it off, and that pushes the comb into your face - hard!

The Pennsyvania fowling gun from Chambers has a butt stock that is most pleasant to shoot.  the eye is level with the plane of the barrel, the butt plate adequately wide to suck up recoil, and the comb straight enough to be a joy with heavy shot or ball loads.  I'll see if I can round up some images.

[Skychief]

Thank you Taylor for your response.  That's the type fowling piece I am searching for.  I've becomes a smoothbore junky despite my Frenchy's poor disposition.  I will have an English styled gun soon.  Thanks again.  And I appreciated your photos.

Best regards, Skychief

[alacran]

That is a very nice looking gun  taylor.

I built this for a friend . I was pleasantly surprised about how pleasant to shoot it is. It is very easy to acquire your target.
 I've been shooting my Tulle for close to 20 years. It is a love hate relationship. Love the way it looks. Hate the way it kicks. I find though that a lot has to do in how you shoulder it. If you place the heel of the butt higher up on the shoulder. It does mitigate some of the recoil. That being said I will be building myself a new smoothie with the above pattern.The Madame will be relegated to the few reenactments that I do. Or maybe sell it to an unsuspecting Frenchman.

[PK]

I don't know guys but I think Tulles are getting a bad rap here. I have 2 French Fusils and a New England fowler with a French influenced stock design that are a joy to shoot. If I use my cheek position as the "rear" sight and focus on the front sight and barrel for my sight picture I never get any cheek slap or beat up shoulder. The problem comes in if you try to scrunch your cheek into the stock and use the tang bolt or breech area for a rear sight. I learned that the hard way when I got my first smoothie.

[alacran]

I do not use the tang screw as a rear sight. I shoot my smoo thbore as a shotgun. Front sight and target. Maybe your physique is suited for the Frenchies. Granted I've only shot 2 Tulle's mine and a friends. Always looked like I got the worst of a sparring match.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Alacran:  I like the butt design of that piece better than my PA fowler!  However, that gun is a little deep through the lock section and on into the forestock.  But it looks like a pleasant shooting gun.
About shouldering a smoothie, or a rifle for that matter.  I'vbe seen so many shooters who shoulder muzzleloaders like a modern scoped rifle...they crawl the stock!!!  That requires that they have a length of pull that is longer than they need.  And it usually results in the thumb cracking the nose, or at least, the comb smacking your face.
For what it is worth, I will describe my shooting stance.  It is simple.  I stand perfectly erect (a nice situation for any man!), and bring the gun to the eye.  This eliminates the head down and forward posture, and aligns the sights quickly and consistently.  It also places the cheek further toward the buttplate along the comb.  Try it.

[Daryl]

I am in full agreement with Taylor on hold.  The gun should come up to the face.

The HARD cheek WELD guys speak of comes from shooting modern military rifles and perhaps this is requisite for them for good shooting. It is not the way to hold a muzzleloading gun.

Leave the 21st century gun holds to those guns that need it.

None of them shoot as well offhand as our ML's do.

[Pukka Bundook]

Daryl says,"Leave the 21st century gun holds to those guns that need it. "

Indeed!!

[alacran]

Alacran:  I like the butt design of that piece better than my PA fowler!  However, that gun is a little deep through the lock section and on into the forestock.  But it looks like a pleasant shooting gun.
About shouldering a smoothie, or a rifle for that matter.  I'vbe seen so many shooters who shoulder muzzleloaders like a modern scoped rifle...they crawl the stock!!!  That requires that they have a length of pull that is longer than they need.  And it usually results in the thumb cracking the nose, or at least, the comb smacking your face.
For what it is worth, I will describe my shooting stance.  It is simple.  I stand perfectly erect (a nice situation for any man!), and bring the gun to the eye.  This eliminates the head down and forward posture, and aligns the sights quickly and consistently.  It also places the cheek further toward the buttplate along the comb.  Try it.

Taylor I agree the lock section and the forestock are little deep. I built this for a friend that had bought a parts kit for an "American Fowler" at the Western Nationals back in the mid 90s. Unfortunately the lock mortice was already cut. It was about 3/64th" too high. There was little room for adjustment. Worse yet the web was a 1/4"plus. The but had enough wood that I could slim it down, but the basic shape was there. Basically making chicken salad out of chicken @#$%/!!.
As far as shooting stance, I have been shooting  in the style you describe for over fifty years. You are right it is a most natural and comfortable way to shoot offhand.  All my muzzleloaders have a trigger pull of 13 1/2 inches give or take a 16th". When shooting a shotgun(smoothbore) the same stance is used when shooting  at clays.