Inletting....how hard do you hit stuff?

[Blacktail]

I'm inletting the breech/that end of the barrel on a precarve. I've learned the hard way that just 'cause there's black on there doesn't mean you should take it off. Ugly gaps, arrgghhh! From what I could tell, you shouldn't take off the inletting black that's on the sides of the channel, just the stuff on the bottom. The exception to this, if I'm not mistaken, is a tapered part such as the lug under the barrel tang. On stuff like this you have to gradually relieve the sides as well. Right?

Anyway, in order to get marks on the bottom of the inlet with the inletting black, how hard do you typically have to whack the part with your rubber mallet? I'm about ready to beat this thing like a trapped coon in order to get some satisfaction! I'll get decent marks to take off about once for every four or five times I lay the barrel in the inlet. Is this normal? I think I'm missing something here.

[Mike Brooks]

Most inletting is ruined by using too much inletting black. Back way off. I use that Jarrows stuff in the little tiny bottle. I'm on my 3rd bottle and have built nearly 300 guns.
Also, you have to be very carefull how you set the barrel in and take it out, if you wobble it all around you'll get false prints all over the place.

[Don Getz]

I'm curious....what type of pre-carved stock do you have, or who did it?   Is just the barrel inlet, or is the breech plug and
tang also inlet?   Normally, I will take the plug out of the barrel and then inlet the breech end so that it is fits real well.  I
will then mark the stock, using a straight edge, along both sides of the top flat of the barrel...these marks, or lines, should be the same witdth as your breech plug.  I also mark the length of the stud of the plug.   I then inlet a tapered
hole into the stock resembling the stud on the plug.   You can then replace the plug into the barrel, put some inletting black on the stud and start to inlet it down until the tang is resting on the stock.  I then mark the outline of the tang, after
bending it to conform to the contour of the stock.  I then inlet the tang until I am getting some black off the the bottom
flats of the barrel in the breech area.  To do a good job, this normally takes me about 1 1/2 to 2 hours.   One other thing,
if you are using a stock where the barrel has been pre-inlet, it should fit fairly well...might be tight.  If it's too tight, I have
made an angled scraper to remove wood from the sides of the channel, and use it until the barrel will fit.....I never use
inletting black to do this....................Don

[flintriflesmith]

Anyway, in order to get marks on the bottom of the inlet with the inletting black, how hard do you typically have to whack the part with your rubber mallet?

I would never use a rubber mallet. Too much spring and rebound can lead to false reading on the inletting.
I like a wood mallet, or a hard faced nylon hammer for light work. For barrel inletting I use the vise to squeeze the barrel down in the channel. Slow steady presure give me the best readings. Squeeze every 8-10 inches and you will be surprized at what it reveals.

Gary

[northmn]

Depending on where you see the black tells whether it needs removing.  If on the the sides you have good contact and should leave it.  Tapping works for the rough in, but like flintriflesmith I prefer clamps or the vise for a even pressure.

DP

[Blacktail]

I'm using candle soot all by itself. I couldn't get any marks with dry erase markers, and candle soot mixed with vaseline was a horrible mess.

The gun is a Chambers English Sporter. It's a much better parts set than my first project. I'm trying not to ruin it. I thought the best way to do it was inlet with the plug installed in the barrel, but I'm no genius. I should post some pics of my horrible inletting. I think I'm gonna have to bed the breech with some accraglass

You fellows give some excellent advice. I will scrape away most of the candle soot and squeeze it with the vise a tad. That sounds like the best way to get good readings. Mike, you're very right about having wobbles cause false readings. I had it start to go in crooked about a third of the way down and had to straighten it up.

I have maybe 3/8ths to go before I get to the bottom of the barrel channel, but for me that's an eternity. An measly 2 hours Don?? Oh my gosh I suck! lol.

[George F.]

I do prefer candle soot over Jarrows inletting black, but the candle sets my smoke alarm off.  If I lite it, then smudge it out it isn't too bad, but it gets to be a real pain on small, simple parts.  ...Geo

[Dphariss]

The smallest dead blow they makes works OK.
Most inletting black has FAR too much oil in it. When I get a new jar it remove as much oil as I can and then mix some of the new with an older somewhat dried up dregs from an older one.
Very soft lead pencils like glass marking pencils will work on maple and produce very light marks and not get black on most parts of the stock.
I use a very small amount on a tooth brush all you need is to make the metal a little gray. If you put much on you will not get accurate marking on the wood. Big greasy marks in the inletting are not good.

Dan

[Dphariss]

The 5 ounce Stanley "Compocast" works well. I have worn out at least 2 stocking 74 Sharps along with 1 or 2 rawhide mallets of about the same weight.
The next size bigger works but is a little too heavy.
DON'T hit parts too hard!!!
Dan

[Blacktail]

DOH! The first time I gave it a squeeze in the vise I saw a little crack open in the wood right above the lock panel right where the wrist starts. It looks like wood that will get removed anyway, but I stuffed some titebond in there and will let it sit overnight.

With this vise method, do you want pressure directly over the part, in this case the plug, or is it better to be a few inches down the barrel?

[Acer Saccharum]

Blacktail, the wood will split if you squeeze too hard.  This is because you have a lot more to take away from the sides before the barrel will go down in. Get your sides fitted, and then use the squeeze method to fit the bottom of the channel.

Acer

[Blacktail]

I'm confused. With the plug removed, the barrel nestles into the channel without any problems. It's very frustrating not knowing where the hang up is. I think my mistake was letting the amount of candle soot get out of hand. I'll try and put some pictures up this evening.

[Blacktail]

I put another crack in the wood just a bit ago. It's very small and revealing. At this point I should clarify-This barrel has a false hooked breech, so there is a slight step down from the sides of the plug to the barrel. In effect, this makes the plug/breech fatter than the actual barrel.

I was getting consistent contact marks from the sides of the plug that are wider than the barrel. After over-inletting things on the sideplate side of things and leaving a horrible gap I was very scared to take off any more black that was showing on the side surfaces. I thought I should only remove material from the bottom of the inlet except for tapered parts.  While wacking away a few minutes ago, I saw another tiny crack appear in the area of the one from last night. It's basically right in the area of wood that would be hidden behind the hammer at half cock if you were looking at the lock side of the gun. In this way I learned that I needed to remove some wood on the sides where I thought I was getting good contact. Come to find out I was getting really good contact.

I removed some wood there and it seemed to make a difference. The problem is that I have no idea how to be able to tell where the fine line is between removing enough material to let the inletting continue without taking off so much that you get gaps. Good thing I'm doing this for fun or it would drive me crazy.

[rick landes]

I do prefer candle soot over Jarrows inletting black, but the candle sets my smoke alarm off.  If I lite it, then smudge it out it isn't too bad, but it gets to be a real pain on small, simple parts.  ...Geo

I take the chimney off an old oil lamp, turn the cord up a bit and smoke parts. I find this works well for me and no oily mess like I have gotten from jarrows in the past... Each of us has our personal favorites. I like to try several approaches to see what I like best.

I just squeeze the parts by hand, I figure the part e.g. in a barrel to channel fit will have to be hand removable so why would I pressure it in with more force than my hands can generate? Besides, the finish will tighten it even a bit more...

[Dphariss]

I removed some wood there and it seemed to make a difference. The problem is that I have no idea how to be able to tell where the fine line is between removing enough material to let the inletting continue without taking off so much that you get gaps. Good thing I'm doing this for fun or it would drive me crazy.

Use a scraper and just remove the black if it seems pretty shiny like there was some pressure then scrape a little wood. You have to develop a "feel" for this. So go slow when learning. Cutting with knives and chisels usually is too much.
Scrapers are the best where they can be used and they work great in barrel channels. The channel should have the tight spots removed by a scraper until it installs and removes easily.

The side plate can be peaned larger to fill the gaps. Just don't warp it out of shape.

Dan

[Ryan McNabb]

Tap lightly.  If you have to drive anything with a mallet to get it to black the bottom of the mortice, your inlet is too tight.  You're asking for splinters and damage on removal of the piece.  Good inletting should allow easy disassembly.

[Bioprof]

Let me put this bluntly.  Hammers are for framing houses, not building muzzleloaders.  I think you've already seen what can happen.   Sometimes lessons come hard, but are well learned.   

[Dphariss]

Let me put this bluntly.  Hammers are for framing houses, not building muzzleloaders.  I think you've already seen what can happen.   Sometimes lessons come hard, but are well learned.   

You must be careful speaking in absolutes.

The mallet, a light one is very useful in inletting so long as the user knows how.
Have I ever screwed up using one? Sure. Along with every other tool I use much. I "misused" a graver and chasing hammer last night. But it was not the tool's fault.
I can't build guns WITHOUT hammers and mallets, stick of wood, hammer handle. I have a piece of fancy walnut cut off a stock blank that I use for a casting mallet and driving wood chisels etc. Its still a "hammer".

Dan