Author Topic: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID  (Read 8321 times)

cold creek jones

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New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« on: February 03, 2012, 06:48:49 PM »
 Hellow I picked up an old rifle i think maybe kentucky ? not sure ,thought about cleaning her up but need some info on her before first if anyone can help that would be great















cold creek jones

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2012, 07:03:56 PM »
its 47 inches long so maybe been cut .i took a few pics i did not see any makers mark or sig.
 










Offline rich pierce

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2012, 07:56:24 PM »
Don't clean it up a bit!   With the pineapple finial on the patchbox it's possible it's from around Philadelphia, but I don't know much about rifles from that period.  Nice to find one in attic condition.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2012, 08:05:56 PM »
She's real nice.  Get ahold of a copy of the Patchboxes and Barrel Markings book and see if you can't
find one like it.  That might tell you who the maker was. 
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

cold creek jones

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2012, 08:08:55 PM »
thanks for your comment, where would I find such a book and  about how old would u say this rifle is

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2012, 09:04:20 PM »
I'm  not the best one to ask, but the buttplate and wide trigger guard make me think it is
early 1800-1820 and definitely shortened.  What is the caliber.  Don't do a thing to it!
Somebody here will likely know who made it.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2012, 09:09:35 PM »
I concur...leave it completely alone!  It is not deteriorated or coming apart and the metal in in terrific shape.  I'd say the rifle is from the first quarter of the 19th century, and is in the style of Deringer and a few others.  It's been converted to percussion and about 14 - 16" of barrel and forearm have been bobbed.
In the past, many rifles such as this were completely restored - barrel 'stretched', new forearm, re-convertion made.  I think a lot of the rifles that have been published fall into that category.  If you decide to go that route, research carefully who would be the best artisan to do the work, and be prepared to invest a large sum of $.

Do not attempt the work yourself...you'll destroy the rifle.  I say that without the slightest notion of your ability, skill, or knowledge, and do not to intend to demean any of that.

And thank you for showing it to us.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 09:10:40 PM by D. Taylor Sapergia »
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Dogshirt

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2012, 10:07:49 PM »
Just bit of trivia concerning the pineapple that I came across.

In the Caribbean, Europe and North America, the pineapple became associated with the return of ships from extended voyages, and an emblem of welcome and hospitality that made its way into contemporary art.

Offline Buck

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2012, 02:18:36 AM »
Cold Creek,
I would agree, Philly. Maybe a J. Henry ( triggers are very similar to the J Henry in Long Rifle Articles)or a Derringer.
Buck

Offline jdm

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2012, 02:39:09 AM »
Lock bolt plate looks like Derringer.
JIM

cold creek jones

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2012, 03:10:15 AM »
 I did find a pic of a gun that has the same patch box when I searched for the deringer name


These are very close this is the post the pic came from.Pages: [1]     
 
 Author  Topic: Deringer, H. 101010-2  (Read 929 times) 

nord
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     Deringer, H. 101010-2
on: October 26, 2010, 08:07:52 AM  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

H. DERINGER    PHILADA a          Lock is marked J J HENRY   Boulton     Barrel is 43 1/2 inches long But is 1 1/2 wide.

Comments added by owner:
"The story that  I got on this rifle is that it was sold at the K.R.A. about fifteen or so years ago. The gun was broken in shipment around the lock.  The lock bolt plate was lost  . This one was copied from another rifle .  I assume the lock was original to          the gun but do not know for sure. I chased this for five years  before acquiring it. The repair is a professional job ,very well done."

 
 
 

Offline jdm

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2012, 03:32:28 AM »
Cold Creek , The picture  of the Derringer you pulled out of the archives belongs to me.  I agree the patch boxes are similar.  I believe your rifle is probably made by Derringer also. I say probably because  as Buck said in his post  Henry and Derringer did smiler work. Tryon  , Henry & Derringer I think traded work with each other. They certainly used each others parts( trigger guards patch boxes. etc.).  Do you have a picture of the toe plate? 
  I looked at your pictures again . I don't remember seeing a star inlay like that on a Derringer before.  JIM
JIM

GrampaJack

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2012, 03:56:38 AM »
Interesting, the cock appears to be flint just missing the top jaw and screw. I wonder what was there that hit the cap???  Jack

Offline FALout

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2012, 04:13:29 AM »
I'd guess percussion rifle,  someone threw on the flint hammer to make it look more complete, screw looks fairly recent.
Bob

Offline Dphariss

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2012, 07:38:51 AM »
Interesting, the cock appears to be flint just missing the top jaw and screw. I wonder what was there that hit the cap???  Jack
Since the lock is a conversion its possible that a piece steel was clamped in place of a flint to strike the nipple.
But this would require someone looking at the lock carefully to make a better determination. But if the cock is as far down as it will go in the photos its likely a replacement.
Flintlock rifles were still being made in the east into the 1840s so its very likely this rifle was made as a FL originally.
The rifle is a nice find and needs no cleaning.

Dan
Let us rather no longer insult them with the supposition that they can ever reduce themselves to the necessity of making the experiment, by a blind and tame submission to the long train of insidious measures which must precede and produce it.  Jame Madison
 Its been happening for over 100 years.

The other DWS

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2012, 04:16:32 PM »
I know little about the architecture and furbelows of the classic long rifles,  but I admire them and those who do know the details.
 One thing that struck me is that the original workmanship was of quite high quality. But when I look at the cheekpiece and thumbpiece inlays the workmanship it seems to me that it slips a a few notches; particularly if you look at the placement of the brads in comparison to those in the barrel key escutcheons.  I'd hazard an uneducated guess that they are very very old, but possibly not original to the gun builder.  Maybe something the first owner added.  The point being that they may not be maker "identifiers".

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2012, 08:00:49 PM »
In Tennessee and Kentucky.the use and making of flintlock rifles never did die out entirely.
They were made,according to "Red"Farris as late as the 1920's. I think it goes to the idea that as long as there are rocks around,my gun will work. Walter Cline spoke of L.G.Moore who used nothing but a flintlock to hunt black bear with. He used a double charge of powder and a double patched bal and like the Bic pen,it worked first time every time. He was a Tn.resident.

Bob Roller

cold creek jones

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Re: New guy with old rifle that Needs ID
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2012, 05:47:11 AM »
Thanks for all the info and interest in my old rifle -Roger