Author Topic: Fowler  (Read 3863 times)

Paul campbell jr

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Fowler
« on: October 27, 2018, 08:34:40 PM »
I have a 62 smooth bore fowler.I am shooting 80 grains of 2f a over the powder card and half inch lubed cushion wad.The ball is a 600 with a lubed .10  patch.The gun shoots great just a little low.Will going up in powder to 100 grains help it shoot higher ?I tried showing more barrel but it is still 2 inches low at 30 yards.The groups are about 3 to 4 inches.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2018, 08:42:00 PM »
I like a tight patch, but for me, that's a .034" patch.  I cannot imagine loading a .100" patch with a .600 ball.  THAT's tight!~ :o
Daryl

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Paul campbell jr

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2018, 08:43:31 PM »
.10

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2018, 09:30:14 PM »
TN,
That's a one hundred thousandths patch.  That's almost ⅛" thick.
In His grip,

Dane

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2018, 10:11:58 PM »
Maybe its .010" which is 10 thousandths.
Dennis
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Offline stubshaft

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2018, 10:33:38 PM »
Going up in powder generally makes the shot lower.
I'd rather die standing, than live on my knees...

Offline redheart

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2018, 11:17:49 PM »
Can't you just file the front sight lower instead of wasting powder and suffering more recoil? :o

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2018, 11:41:56 PM »
You need to bend the barrel,  it's not hard. it's historically correct as well. I have bent dozens over the years.
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Offline hanshi

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2018, 01:25:02 AM »
My .62 smoothbore is a bit tighter than some.  About .615" or a little more.  A .600" ball and a .012" to .015" patch shoots very well and is fairly snug but nowhere near a tight as I load my rifles.
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Paul campbell jr

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2018, 01:49:27 AM »
The patch is .010 sorry.The gun groups great just low.50 yards it is 6 inches low groups are 4 to 5 inches wide.I filed the sight to the base.

Offline redheart

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2018, 02:26:32 AM »
I love Mikes idea about bending the barrel. I've read some great info about safe and easy ways to bend one and now I can't remember any of them.
I know someone on this site should be able to tell you.
How about it guys?

Paul campbell jr

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2018, 02:40:51 AM »
I have a pinned barrel will that matter?

Offline Daryl

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2018, 04:05:34 AM »
Less powder might make it shoot higher, but 50 yard accuracy and further will likely suffer.

It does not need to bend much to shoot higher, and the stock will follow the barrel just fine.

Be careful you don't kink it, is all. The second last picture shows a smooth barrel Taylor is trying to bend. While this looks to be

excessive bending, the permanent bend taken was very slight & needed to be done again.  Some guys use a narrow space between two trees to bend the barrel, put

it back together and test while out shooting. Other guys 'thump' them against a tree like an aspen or fir, something with fairly soft bark.  I also have watched

Taylor 'bend' his Brown Bess barrel against an Aspen tree, put the gun back together, load it up and bingo - perfect - after the third thumpping- as the first two were not hard

enough to do the job. I actually managed a 3-shot 2 1/2" group with that gun at 50yards - ONCE. The group landed just above the bayonette mount block (front sight).









« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 04:07:02 AM by Daryl »
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline redheart

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2018, 05:03:57 AM »
Less powder might make it shoot higher, but 50 yard accuracy and further will likely suffer.

It does not need to bend much to shoot higher, and the stock will follow the barrel just fine.

Be careful you don't kink it, is all. The second last picture shows a smooth barrel Taylor is trying to bend. While this looks to be

excessive bending, the permanent bend taken was very slight & needed to be done again.  Some guys use a narrow space between two trees to bend the barrel, put

it back together and test while out shooting. Other guys 'thump' them against a tree like an aspen or fir, something with fairly soft bark.  I also have watched

Taylor 'bend' his Brown Bess barrel against an Aspen tree, put the gun back together, load it up and bingo - perfect - after the third thumpping- as the first two were not hard

enough to do the job. I actually managed a 3-shot 2 1/2" group with that gun at 50yards - ONCE. The group landed just above the bayonette mount block (front sight).




Thanks Daryl, ;)

I think you covered every method that I've heard except for slamming the barrel down on a bag of bird shot, which I have tried with success although it was a somewhat slow process.
I straightened a barrel one time that was either run over by an armored vehicle or smashed in anger by a G.I. in Germany, it was so bad that it couldn't be adjusted by the sights, of course the stock was shattered at the grip so I glued it.
I stuck it in the crotch of a tree and gave it a tweak and it was still about a foot high. I took it out of the stock again and gave it another try and this time it shot dead on, and I mean DEAD on.
I laughed myself sick because of course as it was impossible to fix it in two tries and my friends that were there still laugh about it.
I'm not necessarily recommending this technique, personally I love Taylors technique with the table and the clamps, as it seems to offer a lot more control and a lot less guess work.
Not surprised because it was after all "Taylor" doing it. :D








« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 05:13:03 AM by redheart »

Offline redheart

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2018, 05:19:49 AM »
You need to bend the barrel,  it's not hard. it's historically correct as well. I have bent dozens over the years.

Mike,

How do you bend yours?

Offline PK

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2018, 04:38:52 PM »
Less powder might make it shoot higher, but 50 yard accuracy and further will likely suffer.

It does not need to bend much to shoot higher, and the stock will follow the barrel just fine.

Be careful you don't kink it, is all. The second last picture shows a smooth barrel Taylor is trying to bend. While this looks to be

excessive bending, the permanent bend taken was very slight & needed to be done again.  Some guys use a narrow space between two trees to bend the barrel, put

it back together and test while out shooting. Other guys 'thump' them against a tree like an aspen or fir, something with fairly soft bark.  I also have watched

Taylor 'bend' his Brown Bess barrel against an Aspen tree, put the gun back together, load it up and bingo - perfect - after the third thumpping- as the first two were not hard

enough to do the job. I actually managed a 3-shot 2 1/2" group with that gun at 50yards - ONCE. The group landed just above the bayonette mount block (front sight).










Daryl,
How long do you leave the barrel clamped to the table to get the bend to "take"?

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2018, 04:47:38 PM »
You need to bend the barrel,  it's not hard. it's historically correct as well. I have bent dozens over the years.

Mike,

How do you bend yours?

Several different ways. Used to use a crotch of an apple tree, it was perfect for the job. Sold that property so now I set 2 4 X 4 blocks on the floor and lay the barrel on them then step on the barrel (or jump depending of thick the barrel is) till I feel it bend. Pretty much the same way Taylor does it on his bench only he has more control.

 
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2018, 04:50:37 PM »
Quote
Daryl,
How long do you leave the barrel clamped to the table to get the bend to "take"?

I ain't Daryl but you can feel the barrel bend and you can immediately take it off the clamp and go see where it shoots. it doesn't  take a "set" from being clamped for a period of time.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline PK

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2018, 05:41:23 PM »
Quote
Daryl,
How long do you leave the barrel clamped to the table to get the bend to "take"?

I ain't Daryl but you can feel the barrel bend and you can immediately take it off the clamp and go see where it shoots. it doesn't  take a "set" from being clamped for a period of time.


Thanks. I have a barrel I've wanted to bend but didn't feel comfortable using the crook of a tree. The clamp on the table is what I'll try.

Offline Stoner creek

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2018, 05:50:08 PM »
You need to bend the barrel,  it's not hard. it's historically correct as well. I have bent dozens over the years.

Mike,

How do you bend yours?

Several different ways. Used to use a crotch of an apple tree, it was perfect for the job. Sold that property so now I set 2 4 X 4 blocks on the floor and lay the barrel on them then step on the barrel (or jump depending of thick the barrel is) till I feel it bend. Pretty much the same way Taylor does it on his bench only he has more control.

I did bent one this week. Be sure to bring along a measuring device so you know how far you actually went.
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Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2018, 07:06:54 PM »
Trouble with a clamp, is that you can't feel the spring.  A clamp is mechanical, and spring has feel to it. anyone must decide what they feel comfortable with.
I like to feel a barrel.

Best,
R.

Offline redheart

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2018, 08:21:10 PM »
Pukka, :)
I'm trying to picture how you can use a spring.
What kind of spring do you use, and how do you use it? :o

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2018, 08:30:25 PM »
The barrel that is clamped to the bench never did bend.  To measure it, I place a 6' straight edge along the top so it touches at the breech and muzzle, and select a number drill that will just pass in the biggest gap which I indicate with a marking pen, before bending.  I bend in that fixture, and check for progress with that same drill bit.  If there is no bend, I add more pressure with the clamp, and check again.  With a Rice, Getz, or Colerain barrel, you can add some bend without trouble, but this is an unknown maker's barrel, possibly from Larry Zorne.  You can see that that solid slab table is also bent toward the barrel, and yet, it never took a bend.
If you use the whack it on a tree method, seize the barrel by the breech end, rather than the muzzle, and strike the barrel somewhere in the round section up from the wedding band.  And be careful not to add windage you don't want, by striking the barrel on the top rather than obliquely or on the side.
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Re: Fowler
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2018, 08:33:40 PM »
How you sight along the barrel when shooting, too, will determine where the ball strikes the target.  With my Pennsylvania fowler (Chambers parts set) I have filed the front sight down some, and see just the tip of it in the centre of the target, when the sight is just visible at the wedding band.  Your eye will centre the sight in the top flat automatically, as long as you don't think about it.  I didn't have to bend this barrrel.
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Fowler
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2018, 09:06:47 PM »
Tks for the pictures, Stoner C. - I added it to my barrel bending file folder.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V