Two "Italian" beauties or: Who was H. Elwell?

[Chris_B]

I recently purchased these 2 rifles at Czerny´s of Italy.
The New York percussion matchrifle became one of my favorites at first sight.
I love the sheer weight of it, it´s lines, the checkered wrist and the thick octagon to round barrel.

As for the flintlock: It has a common Jos. Golcher lock. The barrel is signed in script H. Elwell.
I found 3 H.Elwells, one an English gunmaker, one who made rifles in PA about 1770 and one who made only locks.
None seems to be "my" H.Elwell...
Any ideas who that might be? 
















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[Mattox Forge]

Chris,

Those are beautiful guns you picked up there! I particularly like the H Elwell flintlock.

These listings in "American Gun Makers" by Gluckman and Satterlee seem pertinent.

ELWELL, H. — Seneca Co., Ohio, before 1812. Made gunlocks for Indians.

ELWELL, H.—Pennsylvania.Though reported as maker of a flintlock Kentucky rifle, probably was a lock maker only, of late period flintlocks with reinforced hammers and roller frizzens spring bearings and of original percussion locks. Variously marked H. ELWELL WARRANTED. Probably identical with Henry Elwell and N. Elwell, (misread)? Handsome Kentucky pistols known marked "H. Elwell" on lockplates.

ELWELL, Henry— Unidentified. Marking on the percussion lock of a rifle by G. W. Harvel & Bros. Elwell locks are also found on rifles by James Golcher.

I suspect your Elwell was the one listed in Pennsylvania. Your flintlock proves there was an H. Elwell making flintlocks and not just locks. It certainly looks like a Pennsylvania style gun circa the late 1700's or early 1800's. Interesting that it has a Goulcher lock. The same book lists a James Goulcher who died in 1805. Perhaps he made to lock. This gun looks much earlier than the other Elwell locks. Elwell is a slightly unusual name, so I suspect they were all related.

I see a lot of very nice firearms on Czerny auctions that wind up selling for a much more reasonable price than Czerny´s would in a US based auction. I wish I was brave enough to deal with the shipping from them.

Mike

[jrb]

for what it's worth. I've lived in Seneca county Ohio my whole life and the idea of a gun
lockmaker 1810-1812 is in my opinion extremely unlikely. Seneca never became a county until 1820 and wouldn't have had white settlers at that time.

[Mattox Forge]

I suspect that the Elwell locks were sold in Seneca Co, but made in Philadelphia or somewhere else in Pa. I am not sure what tbe sources are for the listings in the book.

Mike

[Shreckmeister]

Nice find.  Signed Elwell is interesting. Clearly PA imho

[Steve Collward]

Chris:
   The N.Y.S. Firearms Trade (Swinney & Rowe) list "Caswell & Waggoner" working in Lansigburgh, N.Y. ca. 1830' or early '40's.  It's noted that Hiram A Caswell and Peter Waggoner were in partnership with Waggoner being a stocker.  An example of one of their rifles has "P. Waggoner" stamped in the wood behind the trigger guard.

[Brent English]

FWIW, I had a flint era Caswell with that same patchbox.  Nice guns.

[Chris_B]

I see a lot of very nice firearms on Czerny auctions that wind up selling for a much more reasonable price than Czerny´s would in a US based auction. I wish I was brave enough to deal with the shipping from them.

Mike

It took them several weeks to get permission to export guns (to Germany), but after that it went
very smooth and easy. It is another thing to ship to the States of cause, I read their letter in "The gun
and sword collector" (September issue?) dealing with the matter.
For me it is always a risk to purchase rifles in the USA, so I am glad to find some over here in Europe.
The prices were definitely reasonable and it saves me a lot of taxes and custom´s fees, too.

Thank you all for your thougts on Mr. Elwell and my 2 new beauties!

[Tanselman]

The lock on the Elwell signed rifle has been reconverted to flint. The cock looks too early for the style of the plate. I'd hazard a guess the original lock was probably a late flintlock, based on the engraved double border lines stopping in front of the replaced frizzen spring, as it should on a flint lock. I'd think, based on the plate's oval tail shape, that this lock may well have had a double throated cock originally, which would fit well with the late flint maker "H. Elwell" from PA. The rifle definitely looks like a Berks Co., PA area gun.  I think it's neat to see a PA rifle with the H. Elwell name on it, after the "rumors" about such a gunmaker. And with this rifle, now we even know the general region where he worked in PA.  Shelby Gallien

[JIM FRANCIS]

Chris, Congrats on getting 2 new toys. You are going to be the "King" of Kentucky's in Germany. Best Regards, Jim

[Chris_B]

Chris, Congrats on getting 2 new toys. You are going to be the "King" of Kentucky's in Germany. Best Regards, Jim

Jim, thank you. Not the least for your participation in building up that "kingdom"

[Craig Wilcox]

Chris_B, I am still learning in the long rifle field, so please:  How did you come to the label of "match rifle" on the percussion longarm?  Is there something I am not seeing that would indicate it's use as such?

Thanks!

[Chris_B]

Craig, fact is that I am pretty new to the long rifle field and still have to learn a lot about it.
I thought it to be a match rifle because of the very heavy barrel.
Seems I was wrong at that. Please tell me what you think what that rifle really is.
Thanks, Chris

[Craig Wilcox]

Chris, as I said, still learning about these, but....

That flinter looks like a very nice Lehigh-type longrifle, based on the shape of the stock, and length of the barrel.
The percussion rifle looks like a very nice sporting arm, and looks like both would be a delight to shoot.  I seem to like the drop of the buttstock in this style of rifle.
Some of the people here on the forum see exactly which "school" of firearms, quicker than the eye can blink.  I just go by what looks "nice" to me, and these both fall into that category.
Do you plan to enjoy shooting these?  Now, to me, that would be fun, checking them all over to see how healthy they are, then trying to acquire the correct ball, patch, and load for various conditions.
They are, indeed, beautiful works of art.

[Chris_B]

Craig, thank you for the kind words.
I go by what looks nice to me, too,  lack almost every experience in differing schools and things like that.
All my learning comes fromm the very (!) few pieces I can lay my hands on and from books.
I can not exactly say why I "fell in love" with American longrifles, they just look the best and most interesting
in the world to me.
I recently sold most of my Civil War Arms collection to be able to purchase Kentuckys and my collection
of Prussian needelfireguns, too.
Both were great, but now I have the feeling I have come where I belong.
The more thankful I am for ALR and all the knowledge the guys here share!

[Chris_B]

Do you plan to enjoy shooting these? 

I am afraid I will probably never shoot them....
A disabled left shoulder makes it almost impossible for me to shoot anything but handguns.
Besides, we have no 2nd Amendment and our gun laws are horrible.
You even need a special permission (that is not easy to get) to be able to buy blackpowder