What do builders look for when handling original pieces?

[bnail]

One of the most consistent pieces of advice to new Builders that i have seen  is to look at all the original examples you can. I think that is excellent advice but... what are some of the key elements to look for if I ever am lucky enough to handle an original. If one were to create an inspection template what information would it have?  If i couldnt trace the outline what diminsions would i need to create a workable set of plans for recreating that rifle?

[rich pierce]

Nowadays there are so many pictures in books and online, and even dimensions, that I like to feel the gun and look at how the architecture flows. Things hard to see in flat pictures. Look at the gun from angles to see how the cheekpiece is shaped, how the wrist flows into the buttstock, how the comb flows into the wrist. I take pictures that will help me remember things I will not be able to see in standard pictures. This is not my photo but a good example.

[Dave B]

Living out here on the left coast we don't get many good quality longrifles to look at unless you are lucky enough to attend one of the Gun-Maker fairs where owners of originals are kind enough to bring in their beauties for us to hold an study. Most all the gun shows out this way are worthless when it comes to longrifles. Establishing a connection with those few that you are able to locate where you can have access is well worth cultivating.  I had at one point went so far as to join the KRA. I was in Hog heaven the first meeting I went to. Talking with those guys was earth shaking for me. I was able to hold some of the best  out there. the key is to take notes and loads of pictures. I use a sketch book on most all my encounters. It forces you to note details that you may miss if you just take a bunch of pictures.  I have also used impression foam when allowed to get a 3D model of a carving or butt stock. I have a library of original forms for study. Holding originals is the single best tutor in my study of these works of art.

[Goo]

Getting started and building experience is not easy.  I would suggest picking a style of longrifle or Fowler  you like then find someone to help  you buy a VERY good original.    Then you can learn  how to make that one type.   This is going to cost you some money but it will be an investment in yourself.         

[Elnathan]

I'm not an experienced builder, but for what it is worth:

I like to get pictures that the books usually don't  - buttplate from the rear; raking shots for the cheekpiece, the lock moldings, and how the transition from the top flats of the barrel to the stock is handled; the entry thimble area, the rear site, and the muzzle. Every time I get a chance to see originals I find some area that I've overlooked in the past.

Like Dave B I take a drawing notebook around with me, though I usually just use it to record dimensions.

[PPatch]

Yours is a very good question Bruce. When starting out I too wondered what to look for when viewing originals.

Eventually, after attending a couple of shows, and still struggling with building (still happening...) I began making lists of the things I wanted a closer look at prior to attending a show. Having a list with me helped me with focusing on those details of a piece I might have missed otherwise. Rich is correct about soaking up the overall architecture of those guns you have an interest in, trying to digest the overall picture along with the major transitions of important areas of the guns. Pictures in books etc. often can't depict the nuances of those sorts of details and that is the reason viewing originals is revealing and educational.

As is said "The devil is in the details," having a list with you will aid you when at a show. View a piece at a distance first, try and answer the question "Why does this gun appeal to me, what about it has me wanting to examine it closer?" Approach the gun and (always) ask if you may handle it. If the answer is yes then do so, get a feel for its heft, and how it points, look at those architectural details Rich mentioned. Soak it all up. Now get out your list and begin answering those questions you brought with you. Doing that will probably add more questions to your list, and so it goes. Plus, a real bonus, at shows you will encounter contemporary builders of some note, so ask questions of them also, in my experience they enjoy sharing their knowledge. You are now on the road to learning a great deal about those old guns and how their makers solved the same problems you, as a builder, will very likely encounter.

Enjoy the journey.

dave

 

[Eric Kettenburg]

The simple answer is to simply take as many photos as you may be permitted, if possible, from a huge range of angles and in varying light.  If you have the time, take measurements of everything.

Now the more complex answer:  after spending a lot of time with antiques, and working on antiques, I think that the biggest mistake someone 'new' to antique rifles can make is to go directly into "documentation" mode.  Forget the photos and measurements - just hold the piece if permitted, run your hands over it (ok calm down guys), just LOOK at it.  LOOK and handle as many as you can.  Extra photos and measurements are secondary.  I have seen a lot of guys at shows, new to antique arms of any kind, that immediately begin measuring this or that and as the old expression goes, 'don't see the forest for the trees.' 

[smylee grouch]

One of the first things I look at is something that isn't there, excess wood , a lot of the modern made rifles are too bulky and look clunky. I look for the sleek trimed down areas that make a good looking gun a good looking gun.

[eddillon]

The first thing I look at is the area where the breech face meets the stock on the side opposite the lock to see how it is blended in.  Modern makers seem to leave a little along the side flat and the angled flat above the side flat.

[galudwig]

The simple answer is to simply take as many photos as you may be permitted, if possible, from a huge range of angles and in varying light.  If you have the time, take measurements of everything.

Now the more complex answer:  after spending a lot of time with antiques, and working on antiques, I think that the biggest mistake someone 'new' to antique rifles can make is to go directly into "documentation" mode.  Forget the photos and measurements - just hold the piece if permitted, run your hands over it (ok calm down guys), just LOOK at it.  LOOK and handle as many as you can.  Extra photos and measurements are secondary.  I have seen a lot of guys at shows, new to antique arms of any kind, that immediately begin measuring this or that and as the old expression goes, 'don't see the forest for the trees.' 

Nowadays there are so many pictures in books and online, and even dimensions, that I like to feel the gun and look at how the architecture flows. Things hard to see in flat pictures. Look at the gun from angles to see how the cheekpiece is shaped, how the wrist flows into the buttstock, how the comb flows into the wrist. I take pictures that will help me remember things I will not be able to see in standard pictures. This is not my photo but a good example.

Both Richard and Eric's approaches are spot on, at least for me.  I spend lots of time just running my hands over the details as I examine a gun. I remember when Hershel House would run his hands over the rifles we were building in his class.  He could tell just by feel if things were too thick or heavy, so I guess I'm trying to train my hands to tell me the same thing. I take tons of pictures at weird angles trying to capture all the transitions, curves, and little details.

I've had limited opportunity to handle originals. I do however spend lots of time looking at the guns of the contemporary builders I admire when I'm at shows such as the CLA. Over the years I've progressed from being a primarily a shopper at these shows, to being a student; learning how the current builders go about their work. Many of them have handled scores of original guns and have been inspired by the old masters.  This knowledge is reflected in their work and they are a valuable connection to the old ways.