Loaded for bear

[bowkill]

How does a flintlock with about 75 grains of fff shoot with 2 balls in the barrel. Does accuracy go out the window.. Recoil too much? Who has tried it.

[Mike Brooks]

How does a flintlock with about 75 grains of fff shoot with 2 balls in the barrel. Does accuracy go out the window.. Recoil too much? Who has tried it.

.32? .75? 4 bore?

[mark esterly]

  MY luck coupled with murphy's law always being in play it sounds risky.   
having said that my state specifically states "a single projectile for muzzleloader rifles" so ya might want to make sure where ever you'll be hunting.

[bowkill]

How does a flintlock with about 75 grains of fff shoot with 2 balls in the barrel. Does accuracy go out the window.. Recoil too much? Who has tried it.

.32? .75? 4 bore?

50 cal... sorry was in tree stand..lol

[Sawfiler]

No idea about the accuracy. But 75 grains with two balls sounds like a lite charge. I put 90 behind 1 ball in my fifty.

[stikshooter]

I use 80gr 3f in my 45/50 and 90-95 in my 54/58/62 with a round ball ,nobody walks if its pointed in the right direction/Ed

[Martin S.]

OK, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought loading two balls in one charge was a recipe for disaster.

Is it safe?

[Darkhorse]

It can be. If there is a gap between the two balls then the top one becomes a barrel obstruction. I've never felt the need or desire to load 2 balls. If the extra weight was really needed I would just add a larger caliber to my arsenal.

[Huntschool]

bowkill:

With a load like that you are an accident looking for a place to happen...... 

I see you are from TN...  I may suspect from East TN if you are looking for a bear load.  A .50 will kill a bear if you do your part, but I would prefer at least a .54 and that's using one PRB.

Tell us more about what you are trying to do.....

[rollingb]

bowkill:

With a load like that you are an accident looking for a place to happen...... 

I'm curious as to your reason for saying this,.... why would doing so be more dangerous than shooting buck'n ball loads, or heavy conicals?

[Huntschool]

rolling:

Because, in my opinion, one has a better chance of not seating the load well enough and there by creating a technically blocked breech..... bomb in hands kinda thing.

Heavy conical are a moot point as the projectile should be loaded directly on the charge if all loading procedures are followed.  As to B&B loads..... well There is, again in my opinion, too much room for error...

Its just my opinion and I am on the side of safety......

[bowkill]

Was out of curiosity was reason for asking.. have a 54 on the bench right now. Don't really think that you can legally do it. Read of it being done and don't think much chance of disaster if both balls are patched. Take that chance Everytime you load a gun if ball don't touch powder. Did not know how common it was. Guess not very much..

[Hungry Horse]

The problem is the second ball compresses air between the two patched balls, making it very hard to seat the second ball. Buck and ball doesn’t have this issue. I would not try this load in a gun that wasn’t strongly built, with a strong patent breach. I have seen such loads blow a drum, and nipple, out the side of the barrel, taking the hammer with it. Very dangerous!

  Hungry Horse

[Davemuzz]

I've been reloading many different cartridges for over 15 years. Rifle, pistol, revolver etc. The rule of thumb is the heavier the projectile, the less powder must be used. So....for a 44-mag if your shooting a maximum load using a 180gr. Jacketed bullet, the load (max) of 2400 would be 25.6gr. With a 210gr. it would be (max) 24.5gr.

The reason for this is it takes more to move a heavier projectile out of the barrel. As such, this allows more pressure to occur when heavier projectiles are used. (More "ump" to get it moving)

Should you use higher than recommended charges, pressures can spike to the point where the barrels cannot hold in such pressures......and BANG....your barrel splits and havoc of all sorts can happen.

I know there are specific maximum loads for M\L's using given projectiles. Guessing at loads using heavier weight projectiles is an accident waiting to happen. That, along with the aforementioned possibility of the second projectile becoming a barrel obstruction......and again...BANG...not so good.

[rollingb]

The problem is the second ball compresses air between the two patched balls, making it very hard to seat the second ball. Buck and ball doesn’t have this issue. I would not try this load in a gun that wasn’t strongly built, with a strong patent breach. I have seen such loads blow a drum, and nipple, out the side of the barrel, taking the hammer with it. Very dangerous!

  Hungry Horse

OK, that stands to reason. [img width= height= alt=Thumbs Up on WhatsApp ]https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/60/whatsapp/116/thumbs-up-sign_1f44d.png[/img]

[Bob Roller]

HH is right.IF you want to add weight,use an elongated projectile and only one.
A .54 ball weighs about 230 grains and backed with 100 grains of 3fg in a good barrel
with a good breech it should be a one shot killer on any black bear or deer or whatever.
Shot PLACEMENT is the name of the game.

Bob Roller

[bowkill]

Did not think of the air pressure thing.. Your going to love this.. First ball no patch... No telling where it would go.. Think I will pass on it. But I do remember reading somewhere of it.

[Darkhorse]

The old lyman BP manual touched on it, even had some slow motion photo's.

[Daryl]

Did not think of the air pressure thing.. Your going to love this.. First ball no patch... No telling where it would go.. Think I will pass on it. But I do remember reading somewhere of it.

The first ball on powder, no patch if fine. Second ball with normal sealing patch - also fine.75gr. of 2F GOEX with this 360gr. of lead - also fine, but note, more pressure, more recoil, harder more gas cutting on the vent or nipple's flash hole.

I've shot double ball loads in several guns (but not my .69) with nary any problem - extra recoil is the only result. Generally the balls struck within 3 inches at 50yards.

A .50 single lead ball load, properly placed, will kill any black bear - or grizzly. I would be testing with 100gr. to 110gr. for accuracy and adjusting the sights to hit where I wanted.

The first ball on the powder will most likely expand against the top ball due to the pressure behind and thus 'take' the rifling.  It might lead the bore, which is why I suggest a VERY thin patch - like .010" to .012",  just to protect the bore from leading. The rear ball should strike very close to the top ball.

I would suggest a single ball load with that 'light' powder charge will be more effective on a bear than the 2-ball load, due to the increased striking velocity causing more cavitation of the bear's tissues. This, compared to the slower moving balls, that is. I would think the double ball load might reduce velocity to barely over 1,000fps, if that fast.
You would have to chronograph this load to tell otherwise.  You would have to use your own chronograph - the possibility of damaging the machine is very real.

In my opinion, you should pass on this double ball business and concentrate on a good, accurate hard hitting single ball load that you can depend on.

Good luck!

[hanshi]

Every state I've hunted specified one (1) projectile for ML hunting.  One prb is plenty, safe and accurate.  For a single prb in the .40, it's 55 grains of 3F.  The .45 gets 60 grains and the .50, 54 and .62 smoothbore all get 70 grains.  That's all it takes.

[John SMOthermon]

I’ve done it using 80-90 grns of fffg in my .50 and .54 cal rifles.

As others have stated it’s not legal to hunt with in most places.

I patch and load the first ball normally , then I drop an un patches ball down on top ofthe first one.

Finally I push a pinch of wasp nest down onto the top of the second ball to hold it in place.
 
As Daryl said , they print a couple inches apart out to 50 yards , I’ve never tested them beyond that.

You will experience more recoil , but not any different than shooting a heavy conical bullet.

By free dropping the second ball on top of the first load it eliminates the chance of the air pocket, patching the second ball will cause problems in loading the gun.

The “older TC manuals “ gave load data for double ball loads, I’ve been told.
 
I can’t say that I remember seeing it in print, but do remember my hunting buddy buying a new TC in the mid to late 70’s and he was the first one I remember shooting a double ball load.

I suspect he got the load data from his manual, I want too say he used 100 grns of ffg in a .50 cal.

[Mike Brooks]

I have had two customers bring me rung barrels from trying to do this. Hoyt put liners in both of them for me. That being said, I have seen folks shoot two patched balls very accurately. you have to get both balls started at the muzzle and push them both down together. I don't recommend it. I'd just get a large bored gun built. A guy should always be looking for another reason to have another gun built.

[Daryl]

Good point, Mike.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Here's what happens when things go sideways using two patched balls.  Believe it or not, no one was injured in this.

[rich pierce]

Looks like a good gun was ruined.