Bore wear

[omark]

flintr, sorry i got off subject. i do agree with you about bore wear. i just cant see lubricated cloth wearing a bore any where near that fast. its like 22s, more are worn out by cleaning than shooting.

[Mad Monk]

flintr, sorry i got off subject. i do agree with you about bore wear. i just cant see lubricated cloth wearing a bore any where near that fast. its like 22s, more are worn out by cleaning than shooting.

The lubricated patch has utterly nothing to do with any wear in the bore.

Back in the mid-1980's Sam Fadala wrote several articles titled "The Patch Is Not A Gasket".

The wearing away of the metal involves very hot gases loaded with incandescent solid particles blowing around the patched ball or the elongated projectile as it first begins to move in the bore.

As I had stated in a previous posting.  There are a number of factors involved in this and why it happens in some guns and not in others.

E. Ogre

[Leatherbelly]

  Are those noodley plastic rods you see some guys use hard on the bore?

[hanshi]

  Are those noodley plastic rods you see some guys use hard on the bore?

Gotta be!

[Dan]

What wears what in frictional union is not always as simple as it appears.  I had occasion to participate in a major aircraft accident investigation some years ago and the cause was a bit odd.  A stainless wire cable (7x19 strand as I recall) parted at an inconvenient time and directional control was lost.  There were no injuries but the aircraft was a total loss. The scenario was one of a lengthy control cable that was routed through a number of free standing aluminum tabs of about .020" thickness, 3" tall and 3/4" wide, each having a nylon grommet to preclude metal to metal contact.  Somewhere along the way, a grommet went AWOL and in time the aluminum tab wore thru a sufficient amount of stainless wire that tension load was enough to part the cable.  I still wonder how that could happen, but it did. 

Brass, stainless, wood....not thinkin' it matters much if the use technique is grossly flawed.

[fdf]

"My original question, though, was concerning the claim of certain "experts" that a roundball rifle barrel is "shot out" after 1000 to 2000 (max) rounds of prb.  My stated position is that this is hogwash and that a quality barrel will take many tens of times that amount of shooting to "shoot out".  Even after reading the few posts on this thread I'm almost ready to declare this myth "busted". 

I shoot with a friend who has put more than 20,000 PRB through a GM 45 Cal percussion barrel and he is still winning matches and state championships with it.
He has an identical barrel in flint with slightly less through it.

fdf

[hanshi]

"My original question, though, was concerning the claim of certain "experts" that a roundball rifle barrel is "shot out" after 1000 to 2000 (max) rounds of prb.  My stated position is that this is hogwash and that a quality barrel will take many tens of times that amount of shooting to "shoot out".  Even after reading the few posts on this thread I'm almost ready to declare this myth "busted". 

I shoot with a friend who has put more than 20,000 PRB through a GM 45 Cal percussion barrel and he is still winning matches and state championships with it.
He has an identical barrel in flint with slightly less through it.

fdf

Several other shooters have posted similar experiences with prb barrels.  Reality seems to prove the experts wrong.  I won't even hint at names as these "experts" names are probably familiar to most of the forum members.  I feel somewhat vindicated in that when I tell a new bp shooter to read everything they can get hold of and then disregard most of it; that it is good advice.  Forums like this one are a much better source of accurate instruction.

[fdf]

A quality barrel will outlast a cheap barrel.  A barrel with deep rifling will outlast a barrel with shallow rifling.

I believe that proper maintenance (cleaning and protecting the bore during shooting and afterwards goes a long ways into how long a barrel will last and remain competitive on the line.

I listened to one national rifle champion over the weekend when a group were discussing cleaning jags. He felt  that by using a 40 cal. jag in a 45 cal. and using 2 cleaning patches he was better able to clean the bore between each shot.  Someone spoke up and asked about those who shoot umteen times without the need to clean between shots. His response was which national rifle champion does not clean between shots?  He has been shooting the same rifle for over 30 years and he is still winning with it.

His contention is that burned and any unburned powder residue in a barrel is abrasive and if not removed, it will cause damage over time decreasing barrel life. 

Preventative and proper maintenance is the key to a long barrel life.

fdf

[Dan]

My stated position is that this is hogwash

So, there's your answer.  I think the collective wisdom of those who answered agree, even if what they are saying is that other things will wear out a barrel quicker than shooting will.  It's a left hand/right hand thing I guess.

By the way, if deeper riflings make for longer barrel life, I got one that will last another couple of thousand years.  .018" deep grooves......

[Daryl]

I think Roger is now over 50,000 rounds through his Getz barrel's chunk rifle and still going strong.

[Roger Fisher]

I think Roger is now over 50,000 rounds through his Getz barrel's chunk rifle and still going strong.

No!!      The chunk rifle I usually pleg myself with is a Douglas (1 1/16th used when I bought it) and I estimate that I have between 5 and 6,000 thru her and that is only as estimate.....

My main girl in offhand is a Getz barrel .45 that I stuck together in 89 (1989) and now has something over 60,000 rds thru her ( all cyphered on someone else's computer)
She has served me pretty fair!

Planning on going west 4 hrs to a shoot later this week.......

[Daryl]

I think Roger is now over 50,000 rounds through his Getz barrel's chunk rifle and still going strong.

No!!      The chunk rifle I usually pleg myself with is a Douglas (1 1/16th used when I bought it) and I estimate that I have between 5 and 6,000 thru her and that is only as estimate.....

My main girl in offhand is a Getz barrel .45 that I stuck together in 89 (1989) and now has something over 60,000 rds thru her ( all cyphered on someone else's computer)
She has served me pretty fair!

Planning on going west 4 hrs to a shoot later this week.......

Over 60,000 - still going strong according to the targets I've seen shot with it - and shot without wiping as well!  That in itself & combined dispells some of the 'old wives tales' perpetrated by self or otherwise proclaimed 'experts'.

[hanshi]

And I went out today with my .40 and fired some 60 rounds working up loads.  Didn't wipe the entire time and the last load seated as easily as the first.  Before I left the range I ran a wet patch, followed by a couple dry ones, down the bore.  Not much fouling on them.  I guess it'll take 1000 more days like this to get to that number of rounds.  That's the magic of black powder and prb.  Energizer Bunny shooting!

[George F.]

I have a friend, who has moved away, but about 10 years ago, he sent his favorite rifle barrel out to be re-lined. I think it was Ed Rayhl (I don't know how it's spelled), any way Ed did a fine job, you could hardly tell it was done. Well my friend took it to the range and he tried everything, but couldn't get to fire. Then the light bulb went off in his head... He , my friend, didn't install a new touch hole. I believe it was Ed, anyway, Ed drilled the barrel and inserted a barrel liner, drilled right through the touch hole, sealing it. Boy everybody got a good laugh over that one, for he's a builder any very knowledgeable.  ...Geo.

[Daryl]

And I went out today with my .40 and fired some 60 rounds working up loads.  Didn't wipe the entire time and the last load seated as easily as the first.  Before I left the range I ran a wet patch, followed by a couple dry ones, down the bore.  Not much fouling on them.  I guess it'll take 1000 more days like this to get to that number of rounds.  That's the magic of black powder and prb.  Energizer Bunny shooting!

THAT's what I like to hear and see - good combination with a good lube with no fouling buildup.  When Taylor and I clean out barrels in a can of water, the water barely turns a grey colour form the breech's fouling & from the lock being toothbrushed in the same water.   With a good combination, the only fouling buildup of note, is on the lock and in the powder chamber.

Flintr- next time out, after finishing all your 'work', try dumping in a squib load (powder and patched ball) of 10gr. to 15gr. of fine powder (.40 to .45 cal) bit more for larger guns, then firing off that pellet-gun-type load - pow--------tink on a 25 yard plate. You'll find almost clean water after cleaning the barrel.  This type of charge allows the lubed patch to clean almost to the vent as it's loaded, and the loosened, built up breech fouling blows out the barrel with the ball.