Dutch Shoultz's "dry" lube system...anyone else use it?

[Michael Hill]

 I started using his system close to 20 years ago and love it, I was just curious if anyone else here uses it as well?

[bob in the woods]

There were some who used it in our club, but it never appealed to me, since my "wet" lube system gave me the accuracy I wanted, and I didn't need to swab the barrel out all the time. 

[Maven]

"There were some who used it in our club, but it never appealed to me, since my "wet" lube system gave me the accuracy I wanted, and I didn't need to swab the barrel out all the time."  ...bob in the woods

Pretty much describes my experience as well.

[rich pierce]

More than half the shooters in our club use a similar system or a variation.  Not sure Dutch invented it but he documented it and made it easy to follow.

[snapper]

I got to admit that years ago I "bought" his system, but never have used it.  I even have 7 different tins of patches all ready too go to see what the rifle likes, never got around to it yet.

For years I have used a very wet patch, with no cleaning and get great accuracy, so no strong reason to give his system a try.

Fleener

[Fowler610]

I bought the system some time ago when I began shooting black powder.  I worked up a solution of 7:1 Balistol after working through the system.  I realized that I wanted a loading process that more closely resembled shooting from a pouch, and not the bench box, so I abandoned the system. 

[hanshi]

Since I like to just load & shoot over and over with no wiping, I saw no advantage to it.  My accuracy - the guns, not me - remains excellent all through the day.

[stubshaft]

I've been using it for over 25 years.

[Michael Hill]

 I know its geared more for target shooting and not ideal for every situation, but until I found that system I didnt know just how accurate a patched roundball could be, and how small a group could be attained. I have always been enamored with blackpowder rifles ever since I was a kid, (my very first was a CVA Kentucky rifle kit) but once I learned just what kind of precision was possible with patched roundballs...I was just ate up with the sickness then.  I have a nice old .45 cal TC Hawken with Vernier Tang sight and a Globe front sight that I just got for a song about a month ago, and a .50 cal TC Renegade with an unfired TC factory 1:66 twist 30" roundball barrel on it. I have not fired either one yet, but Im anxiously looking foward to running that system through both.

[WadePatton]

Bought it, gave it a whirl.  Don't fool with it now. Prefer a no-wipe setup.  If I ever get target serious again, I might pull it back out of the bag.

[Daryl]

For a long time now, I've thought of giving it a try - 7:1 you say, eh? 

I'd likely use the .69 as I know it's accuracy & would, of course, put on a higher bead or aperture front sight and likely mount a tang-aperture as well. 

I've  oft times wondered just what that old girl will give, accuracy wise with real sights, instead of what some writers have called "Good for 25 yards only".

They didn't have ANY idea what they were talking about, in my honest opinion.

This sounds as it it might just be a good test for next spring, before the bugs get bad. 

So!

Shooting dry patch & cleaning between shots:

Shooting thin wet patch and cleaning between shots, the system some guys say works so well for them:

What about thin wet patch and cleaning every 3 shots - another method I've read about? Do you start a new group with that 1st clean shot, or just use the 2 dirty shots for group?:

Using normal wet thick patch with no wiping for control groups:

With so much cleaning, it will likely take a full weekend to perform the test - not used to that.

[Michael Hill]

For a long time now, I've thought of giving it a try - 7:1 you say, eh? 

I'd likely use the .69 as I know it's accuracy & would, of course, put on a higher bead or aperture front sight and likely mount a tang-aperture as well. 

I've  oft times wondered just what that old girl will give, accuracy wise with real sights, instead of what some writers have called "Good for 25 yards only".

They didn't have ANY idea what they were talking about, in my honest opinion.

This sounds as it it might just be a good test for next spring, before the bugs get bad. 

So!

Shooting dry patch & cleaning between shots:

Shooting thin wet patch and cleaning between shots, the system some guys say works so well for them:

What about thin wet patch and cleaning every 3 shots - another method I've read about? Do you start a new group with that 1st clean shot, or just use the 2 dirty shots for group?:

Using normal wet thick patch with no wiping for control groups:

With so much cleaning, it will likely take a full weekend to perform the test - not used to that.

 The mix ratio will depend a lot on your particular bore. Smoother more well cared for "polished" bore will likely do best with a patch with a bit less lube. A bore that is a bit more rough will likely need a slicker ratio. But, if you try the system, dont get hung up soley on the lube ratio...patch thickness plays a major role also, as well as other variables. You have to work them all out one at a time.

[Mike_StL]

I got into Dutch's system back when the NAPA Water Soluble oil had a different formula.  I am still working off that quart.  I have the 7 water to 1 oil in a bottle just the right size to dampen a patch.  I use patch lubricant mostly at the range so I don't feel the need to let the patching dry.  It seems to control the fouling better than a dry patch.

Whether you agree with Dutch's System or not, he has at least documented a process that will improve your accuracy.

[Scota4570]

We had some smoldering patches at the last shoot.  They were probably teflon patches.  Here in tinder dry California I would not use a dry patch.  If we started a fire it would be tragic.   Just something to consider  when using very little lube. 

[Michael Hill]

We had some smoldering patches at the last shoot.  They were probably teflon patches.  Here in tinder dry California I would not use a dry patch.  If we started a fire it would be tragic.   Just something to consider  when using very little lube.

 Thats interesting, Ive always shot 100% cotton, and with as little as a 9:1 mix ratio and never had a smoldering patch, not saying it isnt possible, mind you.

[Daryl]

If you use a patch that actually fills the grooves with compression in the bottoms, there will be no smoldering patches.

Guys who shoot patches that do not fill the grooves and are gas-cut, are the smoldering patch makers.

[hanshi]

My experience as well, Daryl.

[P.W.Berkuta]

We had some smoldering patches at the last shoot.  They were probably teflon patches.  Here in tinder dry California I would not use a dry patch.  If we started a fire it would be tragic.   Just something to consider  when using very little lube.

 Thats interesting, Ive always shot 100% cotton, and with as little as a 9:1 mix ratio and never had a smoldering patch, not saying it isnt possible, mind you.

I also used Dutch's system in the past but no longer.  At one of the club's local woods walk I had a small fire started with a smoldering patch lucky the shoot's range master had fire extinguishers placed all along the target trail to prevent any extensive fires caused by ejected embers from the muzzle or smoldering patches.

[OldMtnMan]

I bought his system years ago and talked to him by email a bit. The system works but I like to keep everything simple and not use a different range and hunting load.

I use the same load for all my practice and hunting. Mink Oil.

[rfd]

i've used it and with varying percentages of ballistol:water.   dutch wants a super tight fit of ball, patch and tube.  it's probably best for a bench shooter and therefore i do not like it.  not enuf lube to allow loading without swabbing.  not good for woods walks with a flinter smoothie or rifle.  heavily greased patches are best for me. 

all this business of what gun, patch, lube, projectile, powder, etc. etc, to employ has levels of both objective and subjective components and processes.  we and our guns are all "experiments of one".  find out what works "best" for you and yours.

 

[OldMtnMan]

rfd.........I said range work but really meant woods walks like you. I get bored to death on a range and only do it to sight in a new gun. I actually don't even do that lately. I'll sight in at the woods but use a log for a rest to sight in and then it's nothing but offhand shooting for practice and hunting. Offhand feels so natural I can't bring myself to use any other position.

[rfd]

OMM - there is no right or wrong answer here, only what we and our fire sticks like best.

[Daryl]

i've used it and with varying percentages of ballistol:water.   dutch wants a super tight fit of ball, patch and tube.  it's probably best for a bench shooter and therefore i do not like it.  not enuf lube to allow loading without swabbing.  not good for woods walks with a flinter smoothie or rifle.  heavily greased patches are best for me. 

all this business of what gun, patch, lube, projectile, powder, etc. etc, to employ has levels of both objective and subjective components and processes.  we and our guns are all "experiments of one".  find out what works "best" for you and yours.

Well put.

[Michael Hill]

OMM - there is no right or wrong answer here, only what we and our fire sticks like best.

 I agree, I was just curious to see how many others used the system.

[Daryl]

OMM - there is no right or wrong answer here, only what we and our fire sticks like best.

 I agree, I was just curious to see how many others used the system.

Do note, though, that a lot of guys, I mean a LOT of guys pick a load, patch and ball and use them.. No testing, just use it and

reap the rewards, or not as-is usual. "But Joe Shmoe uses that combination and he beats me all the time. It's got to be good." This will not be what the gun wants.

I think the important lesson in all of this, is to experiment and try different combinations[/b\]. 

It is best to change only one aspect or detail of the load at a time, unless you notice 2 or more things wrong with the load. That could be you can't find any whole fired patches, just the odd

singed string of blackened, charred cotton & you are only using 60gr. of powder in your .50. That should tell you you need thicker patching AND more powder.  50gr. will shoot just fine in about

any gun .40 and over, if:

1/.  the load seems fairly accurate at 25 yards &

2/. you are shooting squirrels or bunnies at 25 yards or closer.   Just about ANY load in any calibre with a decent patch will shoot a small bug hole for 5 shots, at 25 yards.  If you are grouping

1 1/2" at that range you need to change the load or get more practice.  Suffice to say, if the patches seem to disappear when you shoot and cannot be found on the ground out in front, they

are not good enough even for shooting squirrels and bunnies at 25 yards. They are not thick enough or of 100% cotton or linen.