Internal lock screws

[rich pierce]

I wonder if there is a market for 6-40 screws made too long and threaded just enough to start the die. Those would be mighty handy for building locks from castings, to me, at least.

[Craig Wilcox]

Rich, couldn't you make some up from drill stock?  6-40 takes a #33 drill, so get some of the .1130 drill rod, blacksmith a head, then a die to cut the threads.

[rich pierce]

Could. Can. Getting lazy I guess!

[T*O*F]

Brownells has screw blanks.  I have 8's and 10's and I'm sure they have 6's.  You have to thread them yourself and cut the slot in the head.

[Craig Wilcox]

Brownell's:  080-011-006WB No. 6 Blank Screw Refill Pak  $5.99/20

They are 2.25" long

[rich pierce]

Thanks, fellas. That’ll do the trick

[Bob Roller]

Rich, couldn't you make some up from drill stock?  6-40 takes a #33 drill, so get some of the .1130 drill rod, blacksmith a head, then a die to cut the threads.

I use 4x40 and sometimes 4x48 and buy 12L14 in the head diameter needed
and then collet it and turn the shank to .108 or .109
Blacksmithing a head? I am not sure what that means or???

Bob Roller

[Craig Wilcox]

Bob, I was thinking that he could heat up an end and whop on it a bit to get what he needed.  Never tried it myself, tho I have threaded a few screw blanks - but those blanks created a blank in my brain!

[Mark Elliott]

I have two screw kits from Brownells that are very handy.   One has all the standard screw sizes about 1" long.   The other kit has unthreaded blanks that are several inches long.   I use them alot.   I cannot imagine not having them. 

[Pete G.]

You can buy for .30 ea or make for $12 ea.

[Scota4570]

It always struck me as odd that 6-48 is not used in modern  ML locks and general fasening.  It is the most common modern gun screw for scopes and sights.  Every gunsmith worthy of the name has a bunch as well as taps and dies.  You can get very high quality screws easily.  Why we would use soft 6-32,  6-40, 3.5M x 1.25 and odd ball sizes  escapes me. 

[rich pierce]

Whatever Bud Siler decided to use, we use, probably.

[bgf]

Bob, I was thinking that he could heat up an end and whop on it a bit to get what he needed.  Never tried it myself, tho I have threaded a few screw blanks - but those blanks created a blank in my brain!

You suggestion may not be the easiest solution to this (internal lock screws) problem, but I have made my own lock screws (the ones that go through side plate into lock) starting with cheap plated 8-32 or 10-32 (6-32 would work also) screws from Lowe's.  Soak in vinegar to remove plating, screw into a tapped block held in a vice until the head only sticks out and then pound/peen head to shape you want, dress with file and cut slot.  I tried it first because I wanted a style I couldn't get locally, but it is really easy and you don't have to settle for close enough to a style you want.  Plus, you can get 10 screws for the price of one from a Muzzleloader supply place, and they have hand made heads and machine threads:).

[Bob Roller]

You can buy for .30 ea or make for $12 ea.

I am assuming the $12 screw is hyperbole. I make all my screws and have for decades'
I used head diameter drill rod for years and then got a good deal on 12L14 the right size
and still have a good bit of it.
I usually make the English style 4x40 but have used 4x48 in some of the 4 screw locks.
Hammer screws are 6x40.Some time ago I posted with Taylor's help a 618 Atlas lathe
that I modified for screws and establishing the thickness and small shaft diameter that
goes thru the bridle.I have another 618 that is used for the final dimensions on tumblers
and some other jobs not related to lock work.

Bob Roller

[45-110]

i know i am anal about quality screws and therefore usually make all mine. i just cannot stand soft screws with a poor slot. i like the shoulder/end of threads to be the exact length and no more. yes it take a lathe for the lock screws for nice work. if one builds a few guns a small lathe is easily justified.
kw

[rich pierce]

45-110, you’re stoking my tool envy.

[Scota4570]

i know i am anal about quality screws and therefore usually make all mine. i just cannot stand soft screws with a poor slot. i like the shoulder/end of threads to be the exact length and no more. yes it take a lathe for the lock screws for nice work. if one builds a few guns a small lathe is easily justified.
kw

What lathe are you using?   I could make use of a small machine for screws and such.  I need to know what to keep an eye out for.

I have a 15x48 Clausing, a 10x36 Southbend, and a Unimat.  The Unimat is useless.

[45-110]

scota4570
i too have a clausing now. but in the past had a smaller atlas, logan, sheldon. it is nice if you can insert collets in the head stock spindle like a 5c size for the inherent concentricity, that also allows you in insert a "ER" 11 or 16 (1/2 & 3/4") collet holder shank into the 5c. that way your knuckles are not busted by the chuck jaws. by using "range" collets you will be able to grip any peculiar screw shank or head size. the reason i like the ER shank is it provides room to work around small screws. i almost never dismount my 5c collet closer to mount up a 3 or 4 jaw chuck. acquiring tooling has to be easier anywhere than out here in montana ranch country. import collet tooling can be had reasonable, and then there is always ebay.
best
kw

[Bob Roller]

i know i am anal about quality screws and therefore usually make all mine. i just cannot stand soft screws with a poor slot. i like the shoulder/end of threads to be the exact length and no more. yes it take a lathe for the lock screws for nice work. if one builds a few guns a small lathe is easily justified.
kw

What lathe are you using?   I could make use of a small machine for screws and such.  I need to know what to keep an eye out for.

I have a 15x48 Clausing, a 10x36 Southbend, and a Unimat.  The Unimat is useless.

I always thought that Unimat was more toy than tool.I use an Atlas 6x18
designated 618 and my second one is a Craftsman using a Sears number but
it IS an Atlas 618.The spindle has a #2 Morse taper and collets are available or
easily made.Old style Bridgeport Milling Machines also had a Morse #2 spindle
and I THINK MSC might have odd size colts in Morse #2 taper with a 3/8x16 thread
for a draw bar.

Bob Roller

[FDR]

Mari Tool has a nice selection of quality collets. I buy mine there.

https://www.maritool.com/Collets/c21/index.html

Fred

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I only have one lathe, and it is a big heavy thing with a 1 9/16" headstock hole and a 48" bed.  To make fine small screws, I just chuck up a zero Jacob's chuck in the headstock and Bob's your uncle.  I don't usually make all the screws for a lock, but have made replacement screws when a frizzen screw has become worn or damaged, a sear screw that is sloppy or doesn't bottom on the plate before it squashes the bridle and sear, etc.  On occasion, I will make a full set for a lock set from The Rifle Shoppe, or such.
I've made some nice round headed lock 'nails' out of 1/4" carriage bolts, by turning off the square shaft and reducing to 3/16" then rethreading 3/16 x 24 or #10 x 32.  They have a perfect large head and you cut your own slot.
I use mild steel rod, usually, and case harden the screws.  I always case harden lock 'nails' and tang screws.  Otherwise they quickly look like originals from ham fisted fools.

[Scota4570]

I have a set of collets for the 10" Southbend.  I find that making any screws under a bout a size 10 is problematical.  The tool wants to dig in and bend the material.  Maybe I need to be more patient?

Where you you all get your screw head slotting files?

[Rolf]

I have a set of collets for the 10" Southbend.  I find that making any screws under a bout a size 10 is problematical.  The tool wants to dig in and bend the material.  Maybe I need to be more patient?

Where you you all get your screw head slotting files?

I had the same problem making small screws from standard 8.8 steel bolts. I've switched to 12.9 umbraco bolts. This steel is stronger and cuts cleaner than the standard 8.8 steel bolts. Makes cutting small screws easy. As for slots, I've bougth Brownell's screw slot fixture. A bit exspensive, but insures Perfect centerd slots, used With a cheap small hacksaw.


Best regards
Rolf

[Bob Roller]

I have a set of collets for the 10" Southbend.  I find that making any screws under a bout a size 10 is problematical.  The tool wants to dig in and bend the material.  Maybe I need to be more patient?

Where you you all get your screw head slotting files?

The cutting tool HAS TO BE SHARP and centered.I have done so much of this
in the last 50+years that I never think of it.A #10 is a 3/16 so I am sure the tool is nowhere
 near to the center line in the spindle OR the point center of a new lathe center like an MT2
mounted in the spindle, I think that 10" South Bend has a #2 taper.
I make crews as small as 0x80 without the problems you described.
One other thing is like Rolf mentioned,lousy material.A lot of "make do" ideas fall apart
because of poor quality material and I am SURE that a lot of bolts are made from mysterium
and defy analysis.
Try and find an experienced machinist in your area and ask bout this.I think he will back
me up.

Bob Roller

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

For cutting screw head slots, I have a length of fine cut hack saw blade from which I ground almost all of the set from both sides.  I mount it in a small frame with the teeth reversed so they cut on the pull...much better accuracy with a pull cut.  I sometimes use a knife file to give the slot a more historically correct 'v' but I like a fine slot.