Author Topic: Lock ID  (Read 2937 times)

JohnHBryan

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Lock ID
« on: November 24, 2018, 02:53:26 AM »
What does this say?




Offline Steve Collward

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2018, 03:25:07 AM »
Possibly "Ketland & Co."?

Offline 120RIR

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2018, 04:06:18 AM »
Yep...that's Ketland and Co, late 18th century or early 19th century.  Obviously, the cock has had a rough brazed repair and that frizzen spring is a rather odd-ball replacement.  What does the rest of the gun look like?

JohnHBryan

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2018, 02:05:10 PM »
Thanks,  now I see it.

Here’s the entire gun. Attic find, basically.








Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2018, 03:12:51 PM »
Interesting frizzen spring. First I have seen like that.
Dennis
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2018, 05:04:41 PM »
Can I come over and go fishing? ;)
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline louieparker

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2018, 06:05:56 PM »
John,   Here is a better view of the script Ketland mark ,  LP


Offline louieparker

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2018, 06:07:39 PM »
Sorry poor example.Try again...LP

Offline louieparker

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2018, 06:14:49 PM »
Second try.  Not much better..I give up...LP


JohnHBryan

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2018, 06:39:43 PM »
Can I come over and go fishing? ;)

Sure, but it needs some restocking. You wouldn’t be the first gunmaker.  Alan Martin has been to this waterfall....  :D

Offline Steve Collward

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2018, 07:15:34 PM »
Another example of a "Ketland & Co." script marking.


JohnHBryan

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2018, 07:16:09 PM »
Would this have been a fur trade related pistol? For American export, or British civilian market?

JohnHBryan

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2018, 07:17:58 PM »





Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2018, 07:34:32 PM »
No for sure way to absolutely connect it to the fur trade, but I wouldn't say it couldn't have been. There were a lot of pistols distributed to the NA's. It's a pretty typical export quality pistol.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline louieparker

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2018, 07:59:17 PM »
I think the script signed Ketland locks were about the top of their line..  The trade pistols that I recall had their cheaper locks......LP

Offline Feltwad

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2018, 08:23:42 PM »
Yes it is a Ketland & Co lock  ,not the proper frizzen spring but does not look out of place  enclosed images of locks from my sxs sporting gun
Feltwad





Offline JV Puleo

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2018, 08:33:15 PM »
What I call "British Domestic Quality"...i.e. good enough to be sold on the British home market. The "trade" quality pistols and other guns were seldom sold in Britain because there was practically no market for really cheap pistols and fowlers. I've put that down as a "traveling pistol" (i.e. intended to be carried in a coach) or maybe even an overcoat pistol. Plain, good quality pistols were commonly carried by retainers in the service of wealthy or aristocratic patrons or by persons of modest, but still what we would consider middle class, status. Almost no one traveled any distance or went out at night, unarmed in the 18th and early 19th century.

Quite a lot of pistols of this quality were sold in America... Also, about 99% of what are described as "trade" guns (i.e. intended for the fur trade) are nothing of the sort but are just cheap guns made to sell in the general market.

As louieparker has said, the locks with the K name engraved on them were the better ones. Generally, the name will be stamped on the cheap locks and engraved on the better ones although this is not an absolute rule. The K's didn't make the locks - they bought them in the lock-making towns in the B'ham area. I'll go a bit further and posit that the engraving of the name is so consistent that it looks as if they always came from the same supplier. I have a guess who that might have been but the only "proof" I have is an engraved lock with a noted lock maker's initials on the inside. I don't think that is enough to draw a conclusion from but if I found a dozen more, I'd be more comfortable suggesting the possibility.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 08:39:30 PM by JV Puleo »

JohnHBryan

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Re: Lock ID
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2018, 09:03:53 PM »
Thanks Mr. Puleo, great information.  That's part of what I love about pistols, is the personal protection aspect of it.  Really makes you wonder when they show rough use....  They probably would have much better stories than most of the longguns.