Holmes Liverpool

[Morgan]

Can anyone help me with identifying my rifle.
There is an inlayed rectangle at top of breech with Holmes Liverpool.
Also has Holmes on the lock.
The overall lenght is 50” and the barrel is 33 1/2”
the muzzle is 7/8”
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[Mike Brooks]

It appears to be a shotgun, not a rifle. I'm sure Somebody  will give you a time frame for Holmes work. I'd say off hand it's a fairly early percussion gun, probably pre 1835.

[JV Puleo]

It's probably Henry Holmes or Henry Holmes Jr. with working dates from 1812 to 1837 at 3 different addresses.
This is from Bailey & Nie's English Provincial Gunmakers and is based on city directory entries. All the directories at this stage were voluntary so they may have started a little earlier and lasted a little longer but those dates are consistent with the appearance of the gun. I agree with Mike that it is probably a single barrel fowler - a rifle isn't impossible but would be unlikely and I agree about the approximate date... I'd say 1825-1835.

You didn't say what it has for proof marks but they are almost certainly the post-1813 Birmingham marks. The gun may have been assembled by Holmes or it may have been entirely made in Birmingham and just marked with their name.

[Feltwad]

Your gun is a sporting gun  the Holmes family were father and son  there was also  a family of Holmes that were stockers  most likely they were all the same family   over the years  I have restored a couple of sporting guns by Holmes Liverpool  I would say that they were built from parts supplied by Birmingham but like most of the provincial makers they were guns of high quality . Liverpool was the one of the main ports for export there was also top quality gun makers working there ,names to mind Patrick ,Blanch, Blissett
Feltwad

[Morgan]

Thank you all very much. After a closer look it definitely looks like a shotgun.
I have been unable to find any proofmarks on the exterior. Could they be hidden?
There is what looks like a pineapple as part of the front of the trigger guard.
I would welcome and appreciate any other thoughts or suggestions.
Everyone has been so helpful I want to extend my sincerest thanks.

[Feltwad]

The proof marks will be on the under side of the barrel  which most likely be the Birmingham marks of crossed sceptres below the crown it should also have the bore size  number .
Feltwad

[Morgan]

Thank you very much Feltwad, great info.
I can’t imagine what a piece of history like this is worth.
Since I don’t have the knowledge or ability to remove the barrel,
I won’t risk diminishing it’s value by trying.
Thanks again, you’ve given me more information in a few hours
then I’ve been able to find in weeks of searching the internet.

[Mike Brooks]

Thank you very much Feltwad, great info.
I can’t imagine what a piece of history like this is worth.
Since I don’t have the knowledge or ability to remove the barrel,
I won’t risk diminishing it’s value by trying.
Thanks again, you’ve given me more information in a few hours
then I’ve been able to find in weeks of searching the internet.

Loosen the lock screw, Take the ram rod out, push out the key and tip the barrel up and out. Easy Peasy. Not a huge value here, pretty common single barrel British shotgun. Value probably $500 or less.

[Pukka Bundook]

Morgan,
Dismounting the barrel should only involve pushing the wedge across from right to left in the foreend, and placing the lock on half cock. 
Also removing the ramrod.
The wedge can get stuck though, with rust or age/old oil .  Said wedge normally does not come all the way out, as it is often split and has a tiny pin through it, so it cannot be lost.

The bun nut holding the hammer in position would originally have had a slot in it, to take a split turnscrew.
Engraving style I'd put in the 1820's. It Is quite an early one for percussion, and very nice!

Mike, you beat me to it.  our posts crossed.

[Mike Brooks]

I had a very early S X S that Lynton MacKenzie thought was pre 1825. Long since traded away. He ID'd the engraver as a man named Leykhouse (butchered spelling), the same man as engraved Manton's guns. These early cap guns are pretty interesting. If the one in this thread had a good bore I'd shoot it.

[Morgan]

Gentlemen again many thanks and give yourselves a collective pat on the back.
I did it following your instructions and it was easy peasy. Although I must admit “easy peasy” broke me out in a sweat because the forearm wood feels so fragile. Here are the proof marks.
Thanks for everyone’s help!

[Pukka Bundook]

Very nice proofs, Morgan.
Post 1813 Birmingham.

Pleased it came apart easily for you!

"Stubbs and Twisted" mean the barrel is what we call a stub -iron twist.  (stubbs  of horseshoe nails, made into a ribbon and forge welded around a mandrel.)
The above it the Brief version!

Sometimes stamped as "twisted stubbs".    Stub iron was deemed the best, by the better barrel makers.