British Percussion Double Rifle by Thomas Horsley of York

[Craig Wilcox]

Fleener, that Horsley rifle is seriously beautiful!  I envy you a lot, and predict that you are in for some black powder fun.

The animal on the patchbox lid - is that some sort of cat?  Whoever did all that engraving on the rifle was certainly tops at his work.

Now you can go put the stalk on a deer, or an elk, depending on where you hunt.  When you get the barrels regulated, please post some targets.

[snapper]

Yes, it is some sort of cat.


Fleener

[Pukka Bundook]

Fleener,

I wonder if the engraving was done by John Sumner?  I does look like his work. and the time period is right.  He engraved for Thos Boss amongst others.

[snapper]

The cat on the patch  box has the initials of D. C.  Would you assume that the cat and the other engraving done by the same person?

Fleener

[Pukka Bundook]

I would think all done by same hand, Fleener.

Will look up DC as nothing comes to mind at present.

[Cubguy]

I realize that this is the ALR, and I am thankful that Dennis allows us to post on English Sporting Rifles as well.   So, thank you Dennis for allowing some wiggle room for those of us that have other interest as well.

I seem to of found myself buying this rifle recently.  I have not taken delivery of it yet, hopefully my check clears and they ship it this week. 

Some of you might of heard of Cletus Klein,  this rifle is from his collection.    Cletus passed away this summer and his collection is being sold off.   My understanding is that Cletus was from TX and was a serious collector of fine guns.  Several years ago when I bought my Rigby the bidding at the end was between Cletus and myself.   I was at my last bid for the Rigby, thankfully Cletus did not bid again and I won that auction.   I was told that Cletus spent $200,000 to $300,000 at that auction buying guns.

I am hoping I can get this rifle worked up so that I can still go deer hunting with it this year. 

I told my wife that this is her Christmas present.  Her comment was simply "at least it is not a vacuum cleaner"


This is part of the information on this rifle.

.53 caliber, 30'' barrels with bright excellent bores.  The locks feature sliding safeties and show lovely scroll engraving with makers name appearing on each lock. The tang is also fully engraved with beautiful scroll appearing on the triggerguard, buttplate tang and tailpipe. The round patchbox is engraved with a large recumbent cat, likely a leopard. The barrels are engraved on top rib ''WILKINSON & SON GUN MAKERS TO HER MAJESTY PALL MALL LONDON'' with platinum blow out plugs on either side of breech. The rifle is sighted with a simple bead front and three folding leaf express rear mounted in top rib with dovetail taking the second letter ''N'' in ''LONDON''. The original brass tipped ramrod is present and the toeline of stock shows a plain monogram plate. The condition is wonderful with the barrels retaining 90% evenly thinning restored brown finish with some very light pitting visible in some areas. The locks and tang are a wonderful even gray patina and are very smooth and free of pitting. The triggerguard with checkered pistolgrip spur, patchbox and buttplate all retain 95% nice quality old restored blue finish. The stock is of a fabulous piece of English walnut and has coarsely checkered wrist and forend and a wonderful round cheekrest. The checkered steel shotgun buttplate has an engraved tang and shows an old restored blue finish. The condition of the stock is excellent as beautifully refinished and the rifle points beautifully with a 14 1/4'' length of pull. The rifle comes in a period mahogany case which has likely been relined and rates very good with an American Flask and Cap Company Indian and buffalo flask which rates excellent with much original lacquer. The locks are very crisp and this rifle would be a joy to shoot. 


Fleener

[snapper]

Is that a picture of Cletus' gun room?  I would of loved to been there before the collection was busted up.

I have 2 from his collection, and I bested him at auction several years ago when I bought my Rigby LRML.  I was on the phone with the auction house, Cletus was in person.   My buddy was there and told me afterwards who I was bidding against.   I was at my hard stop for bidding and was very thankful that he stopped bidding before me.

Fleener

[Cubguy]

Yes, it's a portion of one wall. See the attached picture of what I believe to be your gun.
I remember Cletus and I holding it and discussing it, particularly the engraving on the patch box.
He loved high-quality engraving and fine wood on his items. I was lucky to have him as a best friend and I miss him dearly.
In our travels around the country to gun shows and auctions, he taught me a lot. I miss our time in "The Room"
having a glass of wine and examining and caring for his fine collection. I am fortunate to have bought 2 of his top 5 favorites and 3 others to remember him by. I hope you enjoy the picture! I have others if anybody cares to see them.

Best regard,

Paul

[Brent English]

For what it's worth, I had an original Lancaster oval bore double rifle in .50.  It liked the REAL bullet by Lee and 75 grains of 2F.  At 75 yards, three shots from each barrel would shoot a single 2 inch group.  Perfectly good for deer.  For those of you not familiar with the oval bore, it wasn't rifled conventionally.  The bore was .015 oval shaped (.500 one way, .515 perpendicular to that measurement).  The oval shape twisted, just like rifling.  Not sure how it was cut.  Lancaster had a patent on it and offered it in different calibers.

Anyway, as another poster said: too much powder, or to light of a ball/bullet the impact starts to go wide.  The recoil isn't centered on the stock line.  The left barrel swings the gun a bit to the left, the right barrel swings the gun a bit to the right.  Find a good powder charge/ball or bullet combo, and it should print nice groups at 75-100 yards.  Very nice gun.  Have fun, and show us your groups when you get it figured out. 

[snapper]

I think that I had started another post regarding getting this rifle to shoot.   Once I lightly coned, or cleaned up the right barrel, the left and right barrels group up nicely.   There was a small amount of curl on the crown that I think was grabbing the patch/ball and throwing it left.

I am taking it black bear hunting North of Saskatoon, CN in May.

Thanks for posting the info regarding the rifle and Celtus.   I have never met him, but I would of enjoyed it I am sure.  He had a great eye for fine sporting rifles and shotguns and for that I admired him.

I love a beautiful ML and enjoy shooting them.

Fleener

[heelerau]

Fleener, what load did you finish up using in this lovely rifle?

Cheers

Gordon

[snapper]

Around 90 grains of swiss 2f with a .535 round ball and .015" patch.

I am hoping to take it to Canada bear hunting in May if the border opens back up.

Fleener

[flatsguide]

Fleener, that beautiful rifle is very fortunate to have a new keeper. Please keep good records to pass on to the next Keeper.
Would you mind pasting some photos when you get time of the breech hooks ? Thanks!
Cheers Richard

[Mike Brooks]

L&R

[snapper]

Here you go.

Fleener

[snapper]

I am fortunate to have bought 2 of his top 5 favorites and 3 others to remember him by. I hope you enjoy the picture! I have others if anybody cares to see them.

Best regard,

Paul

Paul

I would love to see more pictures.   I would also love to see the pictures of the guns you bought. 

Thanks

Fleener

[flatsguide]

Fleener, Thanks for the photos, much appreciated.
Cheers Richard

[Daryl]

Oh boy - that is special - well done, Fleener.

[Cubguy]

I am fortunate to have bought 2 of his top 5 favorites and 3 others to remember him by. I hope you enjoy the picture! I have others if anybody cares to see them.

Best regard,

Paul

Paul

I would love to see more pictures.   I would also love to see the pictures of the guns you bought. 

Thanks

Fleener


The Billinghurst buggy rifle - his favorite
Engraved Morgan James target rifle - one of his top 5 favorites

Pair of Gastinne Renette target pistols

[snapper]

Very nice, thanks for the additional pictures.

I ended up selling that rifle in September.    I shot it in June at the double rifle match at Friendship and took first place.  In September at the match I was rocking right along and was doing quite well.  One of the guys hanging out and helping with the match got to looking at my rifle and then told me he was runner up on that rifle when it sold at auction when I bought it.   Some reason I started missing targets and ended up I think in 4th place.

He was putting his finger prints all over it and had to use a rag to keep from drooling everywhere.   He offered to buy it and I turned him down several times.   Finally he got my attention and I sold it to him after I worked out the deal for the Alex Henry double rifle that one of the vendors had for sale.

After I sold it I was and having remorse.   I really like that rifle once I got is sorted out.

Fleener

[mr. no gold]

Cletus was a fixture at the Las Vegas Winter Antique Gun and Knife Show. Nice guy and could be a kick in the pants. He was a widower who was very much in love with his wife and he never remarried. He had a ranch in Texas and was a true Texan. His mother was Spanish and his father was German, and it doesn't get a whole lot more Texican that that. Cletus never had children and so unlike the rest of us, he had money left over to spend.
He like to trade punches and he could deliver a mean one for an old guy. I din't know him until he was older but he could have been an hombre to contend with in his youth. Whatever, he had an aristocratic taste in good guns and always pursued the best. RIP Cletus. We miss you in Las Vegas!
Dick