Lubed wads

[thecapgunkid]

Billy Bones.  Smoothbore .62



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Broke my heart when I went to the range and could not get a patched ball to group.

Then I bought a  tighter ball package of fifty and a bunch of those thick, lubed wads, loaded half the wad, the ball and then the other half the wad and got two to three incvhes at 30 yards.

What's the which and why of that?  Never figured it out.

[bob in the woods]

I listened to the mantra of a tight patched ball being the way to go in a smoothbore. My gun never liked any combo I could come up with. Bare ball with a wad, or even better , my loads using paper cartridges, give me the accuracy I looked for. If you do a search, I believe you'll find that others have the same experience.

[Hungry Horse]

WHAT BOB SAID!!!!!

  Hungry Horse

[Canute Rex]

I use a slightly oversized (9/16" in a .54) ~1/4" - 5/16" thick wool wad soaked in beeswax/olive oil mix. That's under a loosely patched ball. Just enough patching to keep the ball from rattling around and the wad makes the seal. Adding the wad tightened my groups and made the gun "snap" instead of "boom." I figure I'm getting some added velocity from the tight seal.

Go for a thick and oversized wad so it really seals the bore. It also does a reasonable job of squeegeeing the bore. Much less cleanup than with just a patched ball.

[hanshi]

While I use my patched ball load in the smoothbore, a larger ball on top of a lubed fiber wad gave pretty good groups at 50 yards.  I used card wads on top of the ball in this bare ball load and got excellent velocity.

[Daryl]

Patched balls.





Interesting discussion with the bare balls and wads- or paper ctgs.  Perhaps I should get some 610" balls

(my bore is .615") and try them with card or fiber wads some day.

[Maven]

Both thecapgunkid and I know a shooter whose smoothbore is very accurate with patched RB's, cartridges, or bare balls + wads fore and aft.  Having a rear sight on his smoothie helps, but so does his offhand skill.  More to the point, smoothbores can be extremely accurate even without a rear sight if you put serious effort into determining what your gun likes.  That means experimenting with patch thicknesses and RB diameter; RB diameter in a cartridge; RB diameter and wad type (card stock, felt, tow); and last, but not least, powder granulation and charge weight. 

My GRF 20ga. NW trade gun, for example, unlike thecapgunkid's gun, doesn't shoot bare ball + card stock wads well at all, but I'm using a .597" or .600" RB rather than a .610" or .612" RB. (Good luck finding such a mold!)  The jury's still out on tow wads with the .597" - .600" RB.*  However, patched RB's + .014" - .018" patches + 65gr. FFFg or 80gr. FFg are predictably accurate at 25 yd.  Here's one such target @ 25 yd. using 80r. FFg (Diamondback) and a .014" patched .597" RB (Tanner mould):



*I tried Mike Beliveau's 110gr. FFg load with the .597" RB and tow wads fore and aft @ 50 yd. and got groups that were < 6" across, but 8" - 9" to the right of my point of aim!

[hanshi]

In order to get larger ball size for bare ball loads, I used my large supply of 1970s era wheel weights.  While the .600" lead ball proved very accurate using a patch - the bore on my gun is a tad small, around .610" (or a fraction + or -) - the WW ball measured .606".  They were too large to patch and not much undersize and worked quite well.  .610" molds are either special order, too expensive or both; definitely hard to find.  With our last move up to Maine I had to sell all my WWs and 90% of my lead....and powder. 

[Daryl]

Lee makes DC moulds in both .595" and .600" moulds.
 
https://leeprecision.com/mold-sc-ball-600.html

Buffalo Arms sells iron mould blocks in .600 and .610.

https://leeprecision.com/mold-sc-ball-600.html

[Maven]

Thanks, Daryl!

Hanshi, Even with WW's, I can't increase the diameter of my .597" - .598" Tanner & Lee moulds by more than .001".  I also tried rolling RB's between two coarse files, but didn't gain much in diameter or 25 yd. accuracy.  Here's an example of a "dimpled", patched .600" RB (.603" in fact, pure Pb) from a Lyman mold @ 25 yd..  Btw, Jeff Tanner ball moulds offers a .610" or larger RB mould:  http://www.ballmoulds.com/product/ball-mould-medium/

[rich pierce]

Theoretically (I’ve never done it yet) you can increase size of ball in a mold a few thousandths easily and Lee molds are so cheap it seems worth a try.  Cast a ball, put a long-shaped screw into the spruce spot, grease it up with lapping compound, chuck that screw in your drillpress, and squeeze the mold shut around it.  Do that till it spins freely. Pour a new ball and measure it.  Repeat as needed.

[Hungry Horse]

This discussion reminds me of the old explorers statement, “ have lost all sense of direction we were able to double our speed”. The ball does not need to be near bore size. In fact just the opposite is the case. Shooting a bare ball depends on the ball riding in a cone of hot gas, that keeps the ball from contacting the barrel, and imparting spin, I shoot a .595 in my old trade gun that has a .625 bore, and a .590 ball in my old North Star that has a .620 bore. A ball that is too big reduces the size of the cushioning gas, and increases the possibility of barrel contact.  The increased powder charge insures the existence of the cone of gas, and makes sure there is enough to allow the ball to clear the barrel. As the ball loses velocity it will start to drift, but without patches, wads, and who knows what else, the pressure is low, as is the recoil. Tow, or some old wool blanket, will be blown out ahead of the ball, and will not deflect it.

 Hungry Horse

[hanshi]

Maven, my Tanner .590" mold also only gets a tiny fraction in size using WW.  Must be something about brass blocks.  For unpatched ball I put the ball on top of a lubed fiber wad with card wads on top and seat all this as one unit.  Groups with  this load at 50 yards will stay on a soccer ball but the patched balls are so much more accurate and is what I hunt with.

[Hungry Horse]

Skip the fiber wad. Bare ball shooting is just that, a bare ball with something to hold it in place, no wad, under, over, or on top.

  Hungry Horse

[thecapgunkid]

HUNGRY HORSE...OOH RAH!  Semper Fi!!  Do or Die!!!

but I don't wanna have to clean all that fowling after every shot

[Hungry Horse]

Come on, pay attention, IF YOU USE AN UNDERSIZED BALL, YOU’LL GET AT LEAST A DOZEN SHOTS WITHOUT SWABBING.

  Hungry Horse

[hanshi]

This is "Ol' Loudmouf", my .62 smoothbore.  The rear sight addition puts shot group and prb at virtually the same place.  Really tight loads are not needed; he shoots and loads nicely with modestly snug prb fit.  Still needs a short starter but then it's easy peasy.  A .600" ball and a .012" patch works just fine.