Author Topic: how many lands and grooves  (Read 2665 times)

Offline tom coffey

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how many lands and grooves
« on: November 28, 2018, 10:20:40 PM »
What is the min and max numbers of grooves when rifling a barrel. I'm guessing the max would be when you run out of room, but what about on the low side? Would four be sufficient, or would eight be twice as good. It seems to me, and I might have stinkin' thinkin', that with an octagonal barrel that either four or eight would be easiest to index properly. If not, why? Thanks.

Offline hanshi

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2018, 11:33:08 PM »
Not my area of knowledge but I've seen rifles with only two grooves.
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Offline JPK

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2018, 12:04:41 AM »
The rifling isn’t dependent on the shape of the outside of the barrel. Round barrels can have rifling and the number of grooves aren’t set except by the barrel maker. In some 54 calibre barrels I’ve seen 6, 7,and 8 grooves but I’d bet there’s others. A well made barrel can shoot fine from each.
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Offline smokinbuck

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2018, 12:16:23 AM »
Not my expertise either but I have barrels with both 7 and 8 grooves. Some say 7 support the ball better. In my case I am getting good accuracy out of both.
Mark
Mark

Offline varsity07840

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2018, 12:26:54 AM »
Not my expertise either but I have barrels with both 7 and 8 grooves. Some say 7 support the ball better. In my case I am getting good accuracy out of both.
Mark

I had a Westley Richards 16 bore with 10 grooves.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2018, 12:57:48 AM »
Not my expertise either but I have barrels with both 7 and 8 grooves. Some say 7 support the ball better. In my case I am getting good accuracy out of both.
Mark

I had a Westley Richards 16 bore with 10 grooves.

I had a cased W.W.Greener 16 bore double rifle that had 9 grooves. The few guns I have
made over the last 60 years were all 8 groove.I have seen 12 grooves in a barrel made
by N'G.Whitmore in the 19th century and according to Major Ned Roberts the Whitmore
rifles were declared as "Unfair for match shooting".That says something about Mr.Whitmore
and his gun making.
Bob Roller

Offline Scota4570

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2018, 12:59:05 AM »
I prefer even numbers so the bore and groove diameter can be measured with common tools.

Offline tom coffey

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2018, 01:29:48 AM »
My thinking was ...for a barrel with eight sides,  one turn to another flat and I'm ready to go again. Or skip every other flat for four grooves. jus' thinkin'

Offline rich pierce

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2018, 04:13:47 AM »
Have you seen a rifling machine?  It’s not a “freehand, eyeball, line it up with a flat by eye” type of operation.
Andover, Vermont

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2018, 04:21:27 AM »
I'm not sure if it's true or not but I was told that some barrel makers rifle the bore before they mill the flats for the octagon . I hope someone clears that up for me.

Offline mtlonghunter

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2018, 05:40:35 AM »
Some of the military rifles had 3 lands and grooves. I had a barrel from H and H that had it. Shot very well. Put it in a William Turvey type rifle.

Online Mike Brooks

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2018, 05:16:12 PM »
I had a fowling gun by Durrs Egg with a Spanish barrel. It had 17 straight grooves and was 14 bore.
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Offline Daryl

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2018, 09:08:35 PM »
No minimum nor maximum. Generally figured, the more grooves, the more "edges/corners" to control the projectile.

For best results though, it is generally accepted to have wider grooves than lands.  I've had a couple that were opposite and they still shot well,

but not well enough for me and they were replaced.

The 2-groove barrels were an English Item, normally designed for a "belted ball" or with 4 grooves like the Jacob Side by Side "military" rifle, for a bullet cast with 'wings' to fit the grooves.

It used solid, as well as explosive projectiles.

Here's the muzzle of Taylor's Joseph Lang rifle. 10 grooves, 10 lands grooves 1 3/4 times land width.

It shoots very nicely, 2 1/2" for 5 shots at 100 meters, first time at the range.
 


This is my .69's bore. it also shoots well, slightly better than the rifle above and has 8 lands and grooves, grooves slightly wider, about 25% than the lands.



This is a Dickert muzzle with narrow grooves, wide lands, generally harder loading with tight patched balls.


« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 09:14:09 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2018, 09:19:54 PM »
I got a bunch of random stuff from an old pack rat I was friends with, some years ago. He had a CVA Kentucky that had been fitted with a Dixie Gun Works barrel with four lands and grooves and pretty deep rifling. It’s hot very well.

 Hungry Horse

Offline shifty

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2018, 01:32:14 AM »
   Hey Daryl. I really like the looks of that 10 groove barrel!

Offline smart dog

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2018, 01:56:34 AM »
I had a fowling gun by Durrs Egg with a Spanish barrel. It had 17 straight grooves and was 14 bore.
Hi Mike,
I am sure there is no way to know for certain but do you think Egg had the barrel rifled or did the Spanish maker do that? 

dave
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2018, 02:06:12 AM »
I'm not sure if it's true or not but I was told that some barrel makers rifle the bore before they mill the flats for the octagon . I hope someone clears that up for me.

Smylee,
Bill Large always bored,reamed and rifled the barrels he made before planning them
to octagon.We thought about getting a planer with a Bridgeport milling machine head
but never did. I think it would have been a better idea.

Bob Roller

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: how many lands and grooves
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2018, 03:10:30 PM »
I had a fowling gun by Durrs Egg with a Spanish barrel. It had 17 straight grooves and was 14 bore.
Hi Mike,
I am sure there is no way to know for certain but do you think Egg had the barrel rifled or did the Spanish maker do that? 

dave

Straight grooves are called splines like those seen on an input shaft in a
car or truck transmission.If there is a spiral it can be called rifling or
Rifeln (German)cutting grooves.

Bob Roller