Buffalo with a flintlock

[MuskratMike]

I am very seriously considering applying for a Montana Buffalo hunt next year. Does anyone out there have any experience with shooting buffalo with a patched round ball in flintlock. I am having a new rifle pistol set made for me by Lowell Haarer in Virginia. They both will be in .54 caliber, both flintlock with Chambers Late Ketland locks and White Lightning touch hole liners. If anyone has actually shot a buffalo with a patched round ball I would like to hear from you. I am having a shorter than normal barrel put on this rifle (37-inches) to accommodate being carried on a horse or mule for elk and bear camps. Would like to know what distance you shot from, powder charge used and the penetration you achieved.

[Daryl]

For North American Bison?
.60 or larger would be my preference - much larger, like .69 or larger.

The top gun, flintlock, is a 6 bore - not too big, either.

[Pukka Bundook]

A lot of buffalo got shot with smooth bore trade guns as well.

Myself I'd prefer a .60 and up.  14 bore rifle wold be nice, even a 12.  Ranges usually don't need to be too long.

[Carney Pace]

Nothing less than a .54 110 grs ( the nost accurate load around that charge).  I have killed 4 with a .54 using 108 grs. 2f. all one shot kills.  Held on the rub spot behind the knee, will get the heart or both lungs. One went down and never moved others walked about 30 yds and fell over.

Tke bigger the gun the more recoil!  I have shot and owned from 4 gauge snooth bore to 20 bore rivles and the recoil was ferocious with a good hunting load.

Carney

[Daryl]

A lot of buffalo got shot from horseback with 1860 Colts and 1847 Walkers and all manner of single shot pistols as well.
The .54 Martial pistols were quite popular for running buffalo. Taste better when you chase them for 2 miles before shooting
them, I guess.

Don't try it with a .36 Navy - not enough penetration, apparently.

[OldMtnMan]

None of those handguns would be legal for big game hunting in Colorado.

I wanted to hunt for deer with them and got told no. I tried to convince them they were fine but it was like talking to a wall. Only a modern handgun meets the ballistics they want.

[Craig Wilcox]

Shot a deer with a .45 caplock Kentucky pistol, he dropped on the spot.  Shot got his heart and both lungs.  1973, panhandle Florida, right at 25 yards.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I shot a 10 year old bull in November.  This old guy was over four feet deep from hump to brisket and over three feet across shoulder to shoulder.  It weighed just short of a ton.  From 60 yards, I shot it through the lungs with a 45 caliber 500 grain lead bullet at 16:1 lead/tin and 1350 fps, and it went down at the shot.  And got right back up and gave me a shot at the other side.  So I shot it through the lungs again.  Twenty minutes later it was still on it's pegs, it's head hanging right to the ground.  Finally it stepped out of the willows into a clearing where I could see snow beneath its chest, and shot it through the heart.  Five minutes later it fell on its side and kicked for another two minutes trying to get back up.  With every drop of blood out of its lungs and its heart not pumping either, it finally succumbed.  There was only a little blood on the snow from its mouth, ie:  virtually no blood trail.  All the blood was in the cavity.  So if I had to track it, I'd have been out of luck.

I know this sort of posting is verboten here, but I must make the point that the bison is in my view the toughest most tenacious of life critter I've ever shot.  None of these bullets passed through the animal.  Thick winter fur, tough hide and massive girth ...what an animal!!
So go big or go home, both in bore size and powder charge. 

Mods - if you feel this post needs editing/expunging, I completely understand.







Hope the small smudge over the lock area does not ruin it for everybody. (rich pierce)

[OldMtnMan]

The post should stay. It's the kind of info a new bison hunter needs.

[MuskratMike]

To: D. Taylor Sapergia
Where did you go to hunt this buffalo? Was it a guided hunt? Price for a trophy like this? If it was on one of the Indian reservations in Northern Montana how hard was it to get a tag?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I'm a Canadian, eh.  This was an old rogue bull on a ranch near town...Prince George, British Columbia.  The rancher tried two years in a row to have the animal butchered but it refused to back out of the trailer, so both years, he just brought it home and let it roam.  At ten years old, it is not prime food, but the rancher needed to cash in his investment, so he asked me to help him out, knowing I had acquired a beautiful new buffalo rifle in May.  So I obliged him.
I bought 25 % of the processed bison meat, mostly sausage and hamberger, but my wife wanted to try a couple of roasts too.  The rancher's wife boiled the skull for me...it's 29" across the horns!  They offered me the robe too, which is magnificent, but I declined, already own two which adorn our queen sized beds.

[oldtravler61]

  Ok this is just a comment on Taylor's advice. This is also Not a hunting story. A friend of mine use to raise buffaloe. Every once in a while he had one shot to butcher for market. These were all contained in a 150 acre.area.
..I Have shot them with modern an black powder rifles. 50 cal. Hawkins  was used once.  110 grains of 2th maxi ball. Both lungs were hit. It made him real, real upset  the buffaloe. If it wouldn't have been for fast loading and a lucky head shot. He would have killed both of us. They are way stubborn when it comes to dying. Need Taylor's advice.   Oldtravler

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I've got a pair of wool mitts just like that, Rich.  Thanks.

[OldMtnMan]

I have a small herd of buffalo about 2 miles from me. It's private land and the owner won't let anybody hunt it for any price. He butchers one every now and then for himself.

It's amazing how big they are when you get up close. Pretty grumpy too.

[Sharpsman]

None of those handguns would be legal for big game hunting in Colorado.

I wanted to hunt for deer with them and got told no. I tried to convince them they were fine but it was like talking to a wall. Only a modern handgun meets the ballistics they want.

You tore that Jeep up yet???

[bob in the woods]

I know of only one fellow who took a buffalo [bison] with a flintlock gun.  He used a 20 bore fusil  with a .595 ball and grass wadding over 100 gr 3F     1st shot was through both lungs at around 50 yards.  He got another shot after a run of a mile or 2 , which was through the spleen, tip of the liver and lungs .  More running.   It took 5 shots before it was all over.  Talk about a tough ,tenacious animal !    My hat is off to those old timers who dropped them on the spot. I also have the utmost respect for those who ran them on horseback, dropping them with arrows ,44 Henrys , and 66 or 73 Winchesters. I've read that some preferred a lance.  I think I would want my 10 bore with it's bear load of 140 gr FFg and a .735 ball.  A nice hardened Wheel weight ball should be up to the task

[will payne]

I shot a 10 year old bull in November.  This old guy was over four feet deep from hump to brisket and over three feet across shoulder to shoulder.  It weighed just short of a ton.  From 60 yards, I shot it through the lungs with a 45 caliber 500 grain lead bullet at 16:1 lead/tin and 1350 fps, and it went down at the shot.  And got right back up and gave me a shot at the other side.  So I shot it through the lungs again.  Twenty minutes later it was still on it's pegs, it's head hanging right to the ground.  Finally it stepped out of the willows into a clearing where I could see snow beneath its chest, and shot it through the heart.  Five minutes later it fell on its side and kicked for another two minutes trying to get back up.  With every drop of blood out of its lungs and its heart not pumping either, it finally succumbed.  There was only a little blood on the snow from its mouth, ie:  virtually no blood trail.  All the blood was in the cavity.  So if I had to track it, I'd have been out of luck.

I know this sort of posting is verboten here, but I must make the point that the bison is in my view the toughest most tenacious of life critter I've ever shot.  None of these bullets passed through the animal.  Thick winter fur, tough hide and massive girth ...what an animal!!
So go big or go home, both in bore size and powder charge. 

Mods - if you feel this post needs editing/expunging, I completely understand.







Hope the small smudge over the lock area does not ruin it for everybody. (rich pierce)

Holly cow that's awesome!

[OldMtnMan]

None of those handguns would be legal for big game hunting in Colorado.

I wanted to hunt for deer with them and got told no. I tried to convince them they were fine but it was like talking to a wall. Only a modern handgun meets the ballistics they want.

You tore that Jeep up yet???

Naw! You can't tear up a Jeep.

[Mike from OK]

Buffalo are hard to kill.

In my younger years my grandfather had owned a slaughter/packing house. He eventually sold out, but would still help folks out from time to time... One fellow called him and asked him to process a buffalo. Problem was the beast refused to load into a trailer. So the decision was made to take care of it right there on the owner's property.

The owner's son proudly volunteered to put the animal down with his new handgun (which I can't mention here) but only served to anger the buffalo. A second shot into the vitals was made and when the animal dropped to its knees was finally finished by knife/exsanguination.

They don't like to die. And I can't imagine riding along a thundering herd of them and attempting to bring one down with only a lance or arrow.

Good meat though.

Mike

[Smokey Plainsman]

P-stuff is an infernal product that I'd never pour down by bore. Make rid of it, pard, and continue to use proper powder without the P-stuff.

[Bob Roller]

A lot of buffalo got shot from horseback with 1860 Colts and 1847 Walkers and all manner of single shot pistols as well.
The .54 Martial pistols were quite popular for running buffalo. Taste better when you chase them for 2 miles before shooting
them, I guess.

Don't try it with a .36 Navy - not enough penetration, apparently.

SUPPOSEDLY buffalo were taken down with an S&W Model 3 .44
American or Russian.Breech loading "buffalo"guns usually used at
LEAST 70 grains of black powder and MUCH more.The 44 caliber
pistols like the S&W used about 22 grains and a 240 grain soft lead
bullet.
Bob Roller

[Pukka Bundook]

Bob,

When buffalo running, it was likely the ones that finally fell over that you went back and counted. There may have been many more with holes in.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I told my bison kill story to a friend who is a very skillful hunter.  He told me that when you shoot a bison, assuming you've pierced the lungs, go back to camp, make a meal, and go back in an hour or two, and your critter will be laying in the spot where you shot it.  If you startle it at all, it will walk or run for many miles, into the worst tangle of bush you can imagine, and then fall over.  Maybe that's why the hide hunters shot them from 400 yards and beyond- by preference.

[Pukka Bundook]

Taylor,
I am sure you are spot on Re. the reason the hide hunters shot long range.

Once you had a stand, stay put and don't spook them. 

Re this form of shooting you mention, (shoot and go eat etc.) an old bloke near here, now passed on, would do the same with moose with a .22.  Shoot it on the way to town, and it'd be dead not too far away when he came back that night. Shot low in the chest.  they'd bleed out over time.  No, not legal but it worked for him.

[Daryl]

The 'record' for a "stand" - read somewhere, maybe Frank Seller's book, was 128 buffalo.