? HC sharpening stones?

[Steve Patterson]

So, anyone know what was the common way to sharpen knives and axes in the late 1700s early 1800s? Same as now? Store bought files and stones? If found or made what type of stone works best? I know granite is poor and I know they had straight razors so it couldn't have been very crude. For some reason this question came to me while I was trying to get to sleep. 

[Elnathan]

Good question. A quick look around the web turns up the Belgian coticule stone, which supposedly has been mined for since the Roman era and is apparently highly regarded. Dunno how many might have made it to the States, but the late 18th and early 19th centuries saw a lot of international trade (when wars weren't interfering) so it is quite possible that they were available here. England also produced some whetstones and grindstones, according to wikipedia, and I think Scandinavia may have produced some as far back as the Viking period, but I don't have the book that would confirm that.

The North Carolina Piedmont area has a small whetstone quarry - I don't think that they were ever traded widely but a local guy might have one. Not sure how far back that one goes, though.

Maybe someone else knows more.

[WadePatton]

The finer things, like razors demanded at least Belgian coticule for a good shaving edge.  There's a German stone that goes back a long ways too and is finer and has gotten fairly scarce and quite pricey these days. IIRC it's green or blue/greenish, but was so expensive I would have to luck up on one somewhere. I expect this new gen of guys using straight razors has run the prices up.  I have coticule, and it's yet being mined. The cutting media in the coticule is tiny garnet (the gemstone). I started shaving with straights not long after I started wet-shaving about six or seven years ago. 

I came across an Arkansas stone "surgical" grade and bought it.  Might be good for surgery, worthless for razors-at least the chunk I got, and I'm sure that post-dates most of our timeframe.

That's all I got, no idea about the more common edges or more aggressive stones, but I know some of what the barbers and shavers/shaven preferred. Also Chromium Oxide has been around--wait a minute, nope 1838 the French were messing with it (i wiki'd). Probably took a while to find its way to the strop.  It's the green stuff-same as in oil-based green paints.

I'd be interested to know more too. 

[Dan Fruth]

Looking at original knives I'd say they used a piece of soft sandstone, judging from the whetted edge being so worn. I thought about getting some soft sandstone stones about 1x4x1/2 and making a pressed tin box to carry them in my bag. I checked into some quarrys that cut special orders...Just a thought

[dogcatcher]

I agree with the sandstone theory, somewhere in my reading over the years, I seem to remember that.  The need to sharpen metal tools has been around for centuries, we know files were used in the era of the Colonists.  So files to get the basics along with forging, and in every area there is some special stone that the locals had discovered it worked that sharpened their tools. 

[Steve Patterson]

Good info so far. I'm not a reenactor or anything of the sort but I am definately interested in the way things were done and I've seen many references to trade ledgers and inventories on posts here. Thought maybe someone had one handy. Hard to come by knowlege that was passed down by OJT and lost when things changed. I sharpen hand tools constantly in my job but we buy the tools we need to do it now days.

[Steve Patterson]

Good question. A quick look around the web turns up the Belgian coticule stone, which supposedly has been mined for since the Roman era and is apparently highly regarded. Dunno how many might have made it to the States, but the late 18th and early 19th centuries saw a lot of international trade (when wars weren't interfering) so it is quite possible that they were available here. England also produced some whetstones and grindstones, according to wikipedia, and I think Scandinavia may have produced some as far back as the Viking period, but I don't have the book that would confirm that.
 

The North Carolina Piedmont area has a small whetstone quarry - I don't think that they were ever traded widely but a local guy might have one. Not sure how far back that one goes, though.



Maybe someone else knows more.

I found these with a quick google search

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Coticule-Random-Shape-Whetstone-P1604.aspx?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsJrZpM2e3wIVCMJkCh0I0gy3EAQYGCABEgICXPD_BwE

And these

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Belgian-Blue-Whetstones-P1534.aspx

In case anyone is interested. Haven't found a sanstone source yet.

[rich pierce]

I’ve often wondered what folks used. I don’t recall seeing whetstone much on trade lists. Most really old whetstone I’ve seen on farms were for scythes. Those tended to be tan, long, narrow, and rounded at the edges. 

[WadePatton]

Yes the Belgian Blue is similar to the Belgian Coticule (Amber) and is yet produced for trade.  I'm not able to find much on the history.

So I looked up the "high-dollar" one (excluding the Japanese waterstones-as I figure they didn't get to America back then). Turns out I was right about the color.  Escher was the company/brand name-but I can't date it.  Thuringia is the region of Germany from whence they came (and some modern stones are coming from there, but Escher is the one folks go nuts for). However, I'm not finding any discussion of when these things started happening or how likely they would have been in the stores of settlers/frontiersman.

Of course sharpening metal with a rock goes back as far as man and metal. So I'd say that using a ROCK of any suitable composition would be proper for about any Period. 

What are the large foot-powered stones made of? They go back a ways and I'll bet smaller chunks of -that- was the thing for our folks.  The Coticule and Escher being for the finest of fine edges and certainly not the stone to follow a file. 

[rich pierce]

The large grindstone wheels I’ve seen look like they are a sandstone.

I use local chert as a semi-fine whetstone. It normally runs about 1200 grit and does not shed at all. Occasionally I find finer rock to really polish. Because it does not shed its very hard to flatten chert. I grind it on fresh concrete steps or curbs. Arkansas stones are essentially cherts of various fineness.

I use a steel most of the time on knives. Of course stones are needed for axes or tomahawks or any chisels.

[Dan Fruth]

Here is a link to natural cut Arkansas stones from.....You guessed it...Arkansas!

http://www.naturalwhetstone.com/index.htm

[Dan Fruth]

Yet another source of historic info...

http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2012/11/sharpening-blades-in-field-stones-and.html

http://en.vest-telemark.museum.no/home/the-whetstone-quarry

https://picclick.com/Antique-Vintage-Whetstone-Stone-Sharpener-18th-19thC-Belgian-Coticule-192692933677.html#&gid=1&pid=1

[P.W.Berkuta]

When working in the garden my grandmother would select a rock from the ground and spit on it then stroke her pocket knife on it till she was satisfied with the edge

[Steve Patterson]

Thanks guys. Good stuff

[David R. Pennington]

I was wading in river one day after smallmouth and had missed a couple nice fish. I remembered what my late uncle taught me. (Fishing to him came right after breathing in order of importance.) If you miss hooking fish, stop and sharpen your hooks.
I didn’t have a whet rock and mused outloud, “I wish I had a whetrock.”
I immediately looked down at the riverbed at my feet and there was an almost perfect piece of flat stone just the right size. I picked it up, sharpened my hooks and proceeded to catch a stringer full of fish.
I still have that stone and often carry it in my bag or shooting box.

[Brokennock]

Hmmmm, our guns shoot because a fine grained stone scrapes,,,,,, hard steel, in such a way as to create sparks (fine hot bits of steel sparks are) and send them off into our pan of powder.
I'm thinking our period available sharpening stone has been right under our thumb all this time.

[Gaeckle]

The large grindstone wheels I’ve seen look like they are a sandstone.

I use local chert as a semi-fine whetstone. It normally runs about 1200 grit and does not shed at all. Occasionally I find finer rock to really polish. Because it does not shed its very hard to flatten chert. I grind it on fresh concrete steps or curbs. Arkansas stones are essentially cherts of various fineness.

I use a steel most of the time on knives. Of course stones are needed for axes or tomahawks or any chisels.

Large grindstone wheels were cut from sandstone. Berea, Ohio was known for it's quarries and produced grindstones for mills throughout the country. Another quarry site is in Pennisula, Ohio, located in the Cuyahoga Valley National Park. Sandstone was used for building foundations, grinding wheels, mill wheels and can be found in many old buildings: stairs and steps for instance. 

[Clark Badgett]

Good question. A quick look around the web turns up the Belgian coticule stone, which supposedly has been mined for since the Roman era and is apparently highly regarded. Dunno how many might have made it to the States, but the late 18th and early 19th centuries saw a lot of international trade (when wars weren't interfering) so it is quite possible that they were available here. England also produced some whetstones and grindstones, according to wikipedia, and I think Scandinavia may have produced some as far back as the Viking period, but I don't have the book that would confirm that.
 

The North Carolina Piedmont area has a small whetstone quarry - I don't think that they were ever traded widely but a local guy might have one. Not sure how far back that one goes, though.



Maybe someone else knows more.

I found these with a quick google search

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Coticule-Random-Shape-Whetstone-P1604.aspx?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsJrZpM2e3wIVCMJkCh0I0gy3EAQYGCABEgICXPD_BwE

And these

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Belgian-Blue-Whetstones-P1534.aspx

In case anyone is interested. Haven't found a sanstone source yet.

Thanks a lot. Now I just ordered a new Hard Arkansas stone and other stuff. Just joking, I was needing one anyway. I love my smaller Arkansas stones but always found them a bit too small

[Pukka Bundook]

One stone I use, and has been available  for a Long time, is a fine and medium India stone.
 My old pal Ken Roberts back home got one when an apprentice in the 30's and used it all his life.  Mine I got in the early 80's and it is still as good as new.   As these are oil-stones, you need a lube, and ken recommended Neatsfoot oil. He was told to use this by his boss Billy Newlove when he started his apprenticeship, and always used it.  It never gums up like if you use engine oil.
Just an idea.   My 'Old " stone is a solid one, not a compound, but know not exactly what stone it is.  Was GT Gt G-fathers.

[WadePatton]

The earliest reference I've found to Arkansas Novaculite use by white men is early 1800's.  But then I've not studied this long. I do know that "proper times" is very important to some. So Arkansas might not go back terribly far with regard to America.

source of info.  http://archeology.uark.edu/novaculite/index.html?pageName=Novaculite%20as%20Whetstone%20Rock

[Levy]

When I was working on shipwreck artifacts for the State of Florida, I remember a large sandstone wheel being found on one of the 1715 Plate Fleet wrecks.  From the 1733 Plate Fleet wrecks were found several whetstones about 1 1/2" x 5"-6" that were grooved on one end and had a pewter or lead eye/cap poured onto it with an eye for suspension.  They seemed to have two types of stone/grit, one side being a blueish green and the other side more gray.  I don't know if this was naturally occurring or they were artificially bonded together somehow.  Folks probably used what they could find locally that worked.  It was probably not very easy to find something in Florida, as we have mostly limestone.  James Levy 

[WadePatton]

When I was working on shipwreck artifacts for the State of Florida, I remember a large sandstone wheel being found on one of the 1715 Plate Fleet wrecks.  From the 1733 Plate Fleet wrecks were found several whetstones about 1 1/2" x 5"-6" that were grooved on one end and had a pewter or lead eye/cap poured onto it with an eye for suspension.  They seemed to have two types of stone/grit, one side being a blueish green and the other side more gray.  I don't know if this was naturally occurring or they were artificially bonded together somehow.  Folks probably used what they could find locally that worked.  It was probably not very easy to find something in Florida, as we have mostly limestone.  James Levy

The blueish green sounds much like the mined stones from Thuringia, Germany.  Those go back well before American stones.

[David R. Pennington]

Here’s my natural ‘found’ rock I carry in my bag at times. Found wading in river.

[J.E. Moore]

I'd say river rock and sandstone were used. I remember my great grandfather telling me that sometime they would take a load of implements over the the next valley to the forge and heat the edges and hammer em back thin again. Guess folks used what they could get.

[Hungry Horse]

I was hunting with my grandfather ( well, he was hunting, I was tagging along, and talking too much) I was about eight at the time. We came upon a sandstone ledge with layers about an inch thick. Grandpa immediately quit deer hunting and began harvesting chunks of sandstone. When I asked him what he was doing, he said pickin’ up wet stones to sharpen stuff. I still have one we picked up that day.
 You have to remember that high carbon steel was a rarity a couple of hundred years ago. Even knives forged from old files often were heated so many times much of the carbon was lost.

  Hungry Horse