Breech plug removal

[Bob Roller]

Back to the original question. How do I remove these patent breeches ?   With a hacksaw.  Good riddance 

I still have a TC breech plug removed with a saw.The barrel
was made into a couple of pipe tomahawks.
I have a heavy 5" vise on the end of my bench and a friend
who was 6'8" and nearly 400  pounds couldn't move that plug
so the horizontal bandsaw got the job.

Bob Roller

[rfd]

ah, the amazing welding power of bp mitigation into breech plug threads! 

and some folks poo-poo the concept of greasing new plugs and having obsessive post-shoot barrel cleaning regimens.

[ClaudeH]

Thank you, rfd, for useful information and feeding my curiosity.

Where do you obtain the hex sockets?  I take it they must be a little different from one I might use with a breaker bar, since they need a surface for the wrench to get a purchase.

I thought a picture in one of your past posts showed the rcorp wrench on the hook of a breech plug.  If that was the wrong impression, I'm glad you provided more information before I messed up a rifle.

I kind of dread taking massive force to my two Investarms/Cabelas Hawkens' because their 15/16", .58 caliber barrels are kind of scarce and I'd hate to bugger them up.  But I would like to have the plug threads clean and properly preserved and feed my curiosity by a closer inspection of the plugs. 

[rfd]

this is a reed corp wrench and patent breech wrench (acquired off ebay, for 15/16" barrels) working together to remove a GPR patent breech ...



this is a rice barrel wrench, in concert with the leverage of an iron pipe, removing a standard breech plug ...

[Turtle]

 The tough ones I got out weren't seized due to corrosion, they were just stinkin tight!

[rfd]

The tough ones I got out weren't seized due to corrosion, they were just stinkin tight!

i believe those kinda plugs were designed never to be removed.  according to the traditions manufacturer, attempting to remove a plug would destroy the barrel itself.  i read that in one of their trad ml "manuals". 

[Turtle]

putting them in so tight may be due to liability concerns

[rfd]

putting them in so tight may be due to liability concerns

to protect the stupid at the cost of the smart.  seems to be the way most things go, these dayze.

[cantom]

Hello to RFD and anyone else who knows!

I just bought a Jonathon Browning Mountain Rifle in .45. It's in beauty shape.

I'm wondering what make, shape or taper of jag/brush/scraper I need to clean right down to the bottom of the breech plug.

I was going to ask if I should remove the plug so I can Never Seize the threads, but...I found a thread elsewhere that said to never ever remove this plug on these rifles as they are torqued plus silver soldered in place.

Comments and knowledge much appreciated.

[Daryl]

Cantom, I suggest you buy a .45 cal. jag from Track with the proper thread (8x32 or 10x32) to fit your rod or loading cleaning rod. I suggest you size (file) the jag to allow a snug
fit of 2 layers of cotton flannelette for cleaning patches. This will easily get to the bottom of the grooves for cleaning.
You can use the search engine here at ALR to find threads with cleaning regimes for cleaning with easily removable barrels.

[cantom]

Yes indeed, but I'm referring to what they were talking about in this thread, the bottom of the patent breech shape in the breech plug. Since you can't see it, what kind of crud is building up in there?
A poster elsewhere in internet land referred to the need on the JBMR for a jag that tapers at the front so it can reach down into that recess.

Someone said people have had regular squared off jags actually stick down there, getting stuck in the taper.

The gent I bought the rifle from said he had a gent make him a custom scraper at one time, but apparently it didn't work so well. Imagine if you had the breech plug out and make one to scrape and fit precisely.

Thus my desire to be able to remove the breech plug at will to be able to ensure down there is cleaned out well.

With regard to the easily removed breech plugs on the current crop of inline muzzle loaders...how lucky they are.

[cantom]

ah, the amazing welding power of bp mitigation into breech plug threads! 

and some folks poo-poo the concept of greasing new plugs and having obsessive post-shoot barrel cleaning regimens.

Yes!

[smylee grouch]

Forget about a jag to clean the ante-chamber in the breech plug, get a slotted tip for your cleaning rod and use a flannel patch on it to get down in that small hole. Use room temp water in a flushing action in and out to clean the barrel and you will flush all the crud out. Dry with two or three clean dry flannel patches and then use a good dose of WD 40 and patch out the excess.

[cantom]

I have partially come up with a solution. I've just scored 2 pounds of American Pioneer powder. Cop out I know.

Very interested in what rfd has to say too or anyone who's actually seen a JBMR with breech plug out. I do love the idea of being able to Never Seize the plug.

But, if it's silver soldered in...

These are a very solid rifle. One interesting aspect of the gun is that the breech plug is threaded and silver soldered in place. Don't even think about removing that breech plug.

[cantom]

Forget about a jag to clean the ante-chamber in the breech plug, get a slotted tip for your cleaning rod and use a flannel patch on it to get down in that small hole. Use room temp water in a flushing action in and out to clean the barrel and you will flush all the crud out. Dry with two or three clean dry flannel patches and then use a good dose of WD 40 and patch out the excess.

Okay, yes, I'll do that and thanks.

[smylee grouch]

I think there are many on this forum that will tell you that you will do more harm to your gun with that powder as you would removing the breech. JMHO

[Dphariss]

The thread on vent liners led me to ask:

Doesn't conventional wisdom say that breech plugs should not be removed from the import/factory guns?

I'd like to remove and inspect the plugs on my Investarms and Pedersoli guns but I've been told not to ty it.

Of course, being patent breeches, there would still be problems determining the length for trimming the protrusion of a vent liner.

I would not. Its possible, depending on how it was installed that when you reinstall it might turn past index. IE be loose at the index point.
In reference to Bob Roller’’s TC “experience” some were known to break off  when removal was attempted since they were machine installed and would over stress the rebate at the breech end of the threads and they would break at that point.
I have had one factory made in the shop over the years, Browning Mtn Rifle. Very poorly breeched. Significant gap for fouling trap. But you will find this or worse on some barrels made here in the USA. I won’t go any farther with this less I get in trouble. All I will say is I don’t order barrels with breeches installed a friend sent me one to stock and I spent over an hour on the lathe getting it refit so the makers name was in the same relation to the patent breech. I pulled it to make sure it was right and it wasn’t. So the name on the barrel does no

[Dphariss]

American Pioneer powder. IIRC is basically useless. I would have to did back into my Mad Monk archive but like all of them they are remakes or modifications of powder tried in the 19th c and they were useless then too.
One of these was so hygroscopic, That a horn filled with it hung on a wall started to drip liquid. But again I would have to dig to get the exact name. Others produced wild variations in velocity, either because of the basic powder or because they suck up water from the air. One at least, is wildly corrosive.

[taterbug]

one of the suggestions in that original thread, was to purchase, and use, a small inexpensive camera (endoscope) attached to a cell phone.  These are still available. 

If you are so worried about the breech on this gun, I would think a camera for less than $20 might be a good alternative to ruining what may be a perfectly functional gun.  It would also help ease your concern about cleaning the gun after shooting.