TVM: Subpar?

[Smokey Plainsman]

Guys I recently submitted an order to TVM for one of their Tennessee style flintlock rifles. Well some of the guys on another forum are pretty much saying TVMs aren’t very good and that I should have gotten a Tip Curtis gun or something else.

Guys is this so? I don’t need a rifle 100% historically correct, I do not reenact, just shoot and hunt. I ordered a plain poor boy iron mounted gun with fancy maple, .40 caliber A frame swamped 42” Rice round bottom bbl, and Chamber’s Late Ketland lock. Also will have a grease hole in the stock, devoid of side plate, entry thimble, nose cap, just a really plain gun but with (hopefully) pretty wood, a good bbl, and a good lock.

But those guys have me worried I should have made a different choice. 

Guys please let me know either way... I’m just worried!!

-Smokey

[Dennis Glazener]

I am not familiar with TVM but the parts you mention are first class. As long as workmanship is good and the guns is reliable I would not worry what others say. Everyone has an opinion
Dennis

[smokinbuck]

You need to stop listening to everyone else and judge for yourself. IMHO TVM makes a fine rifle for the money. You may find a used custom/semi custom for the money but you are getting new quality parts well assembled. Enjoy your new rifle.
Mark

[Smokey Plainsman]

You need to stop listening to everyone else and judge for yourself. IMHO TVM makes a fine rifle for the money. You may find a used custom/semi custom for the money but you are getting new quality parts well assembled. Enjoy your new rifle.
Mark

Thank you, it’s just that I’m really new and don’t know.

[Bob Roller]

The Rice barrel and the Chambers Late Ketland lock would make a good gun even
if the stock was Sycamore.The rifle you described is one of my favorites and the other
extreme is a Rigby or Henry 1000,yard match rifle.

Bob Roller

[oldtravler61]

   Smokey I USED to have a TVM rifle. It was a tack driving shooter. Unfortunately I sold it at a time when I needed money more than the gun.
 Absolutely wished I would not of sold it.!!   Oldtravler

[Eric Krewson]

I have been to the Davy Crockett Days get together a bunch of times and seen many more TVM rifles than all the others put together, the guys really like them. I would call them a somewhat generic rifle, well put together that will serve your purpose especially well considering your choice of grreat parts.

[Mike Brooks]

TVM. Very Generic. They don't pay attention to nuances inside of various schools. Drop is adjusted right where the triggers are, you want more drop it gets bent more right there. The web between the ram rod pipe and the barrel is way too thick. The barrel is buried too far into the wood as is the ram rod. The wood is way too soft and there is too much left on it. I can point out a TVM rifle from across the room, they have no soul. One positive I have noticed is their inletting always seems to be good.

 All that being said, everyone who owns one says they shoot well. All the knocks I gave them are cost savings issues. If you want to avoid all of those issues you're going to have to pay more. So, as it always seems to be, you get what you pay for. I'm quite surprised you found a website that poo-poo's TVM, most folks , other than experienced gunmakers love the blasted things.

All of this is of course only MY opinion, other's opinions may well be quite different.

[WadePatton]

So now there's only one "TVM"?

Every time someone starts talking about "TVM" this or that, I'm always left guessing if they're talking about Jack Garner's company or Matt Avance's company.  Both in the same village as I recall, they both get referred to as "TVM" and produce similar products/packages IIRC.

I looked at that stuff pretty hard a few year back, but never did business with (either of) them.  I do quite trust Mike Brooks assessment (sounds like others I've heard).  But that doesn't mean you won't get a great, fun, shootin' iron for your money.  Good luck with it.

[Smokey Plainsman]

TVM. Very Generic. They don't pay attention to nuances inside of various schools. Drop is adjusted right where the triggers are, you want more drop it gets bent more right there. The web between the ram rod pipe and the barrel is way too thick. The barrel is buried too far into the wood as is the ram rod. The wood is way too soft and there is too much left on it. I can point out a TVM rifle from across the room, they have no soul. One positive I have noticed is their inletting always seems to be good.

 All that being said, everyone who owns one says they shoot well. All the knocks I gave them are cost savings issues. If you want to avoid all of those issues you're going to have to pay more. So, as it always seems to be, you get what you pay for. I'm quite surprised you found a website that poo-poo's TVM, most folks , other than experienced gunmakers love the blasted things.

All of this is of course only MY opinion, other's opinions may well be quite different.

Just what I afeared.

Well, I only have $200 in on the deposit right now. I’m strongly thinking about cutting my loses going with someone that can make a better rifle. I had no idea how bad TVMs are thought of until I did some digging. I can’t go through with it I don’t think...

[smokinbuck]

I chimed in earlier and stand by what was said. They are generic but they don't cost several thousand dollars. I have found them to be good quality accurate rifles for the money. Further, wether it's Matt Avance or Jack Brooks, you're not going to find better people to deal with.
Mark

[WadePatton]

So are you talking about TVM- Nachez or Corinth MS?

They are no the same.

[axelp]

I just viewed what was listed as an original french style, colonial restocked fowler that had more web between the ramrod and the barrel than Matt Avance guns sport. Not all originals were thin and sleek. Its true that one of the identifying traits of a TVM gun is more wood, web and side panel. But this can also be seen in some original american guns. I am sure its a cost shaving feature. Its not any more or less shootable. Maybe not as attractive as a thin sleek, more expensive gun. hmmmmm.

I know Matt will customize any of the styles he makes... Does anyone know if he will make a gun for a customer that is thinner and sleeker than what he usually makes? It might cost a few more shillings? Would not hurt to ask if you are concerned. I have never heard anyone say that Matt Avance is not a nice friendly reasonable gent to work with.

[smokinbuck]

Wade,
I "think" Corinth but not positive. Definitely for sure Matt Avance.
Mark

[Mike Brooks]

TVM. Very Generic. They don't pay attention to nuances inside of various schools. Drop is adjusted right where the triggers are, you want more drop it gets bent more right there. The web between the ram rod pipe and the barrel is way too thick. The barrel is buried too far into the wood as is the ram rod. The wood is way too soft and there is too much left on it. I can point out a TVM rifle from across the room, they have no soul. One positive I have noticed is their inletting always seems to be good.

 All that being said, everyone who owns one says they shoot well. All the knocks I gave them are cost savings issues. If you want to avoid all of those issues you're going to have to pay more. So, as it always seems to be, you get what you pay for. I'm quite surprised you found a website that poo-poo's TVM, most folks , other than experienced gunmakers love the blasted things.

All of this is of course only MY opinion, other's opinions may well be quite different.

Just what I afeared.

Well, I only have $200 in on the deposit right now. I’m strongly thinking about cutting my loses going with someone that can make a better rifle. I had no idea how bad TVMs are thought of until I did some digging. I can’t go through with it I don’t think...

I wouldn't freak out. I have studied and built these guns for a living for 39 years now so small things like that bother me. 99% of people won't even notice these sorts of things. These TVM guns are in no way "subpar", they just aren't what I personally would be looking for in a gun unless it was the price point that was the most important aspect, and again I'll stress, those little details bother me and probably not a lot of other people..  I don't know what they get for their guns, but If you don't go with TVM chances are you're going to end up paying a lot more money for a more correctly styled/built gun. And, lets all remember, no matter who builds a gun these days you're at $1000 in parts before you even start to build it. Nothing about muzzleloading is cheap these days.
 In closing, from everything I have heard, they function and shoot well. I don't think I've every heard any complaints from their customers.

[smylee grouch]

You stated in your first post that you dont need a 100% historicly correct gun. You have picked out some great parts and the most critical response so far said that they did do good inleting. Don't worry about it just shoot it.  JMHO enjoy.

[Smokey Plainsman]

So are you talking about TVM- Nachez or Corinth MS?

They are no the same.

These people:

www.tennesseevalleymuzzleloading.com

[WadePatton]

So are you talking about TVM- Nachez or Corinth MS?

They are no the same.

These people:

www.tennesseevalleymuzzleloading.com

Righto, that's Matt Avance in Natchez.

[smart dog]

Hi Smokey,
The TVM rifle will be fine.  It should be made well and shoot well.  I don't own a TVM but have repaired 4 or 5 of them and refinished 2 of them for other folks.  TVM has to cut some corners to keep costs down and therefore they use a generic stock design for many different models swapping out hardware for the different models.  In general, they leave more wood on the stocks than you typically find on original guns.  If you want to see the differences with respect to their Tennessee and southern mountain rifles and a more historically consistent example simply look at the photos of the TVMs and then look at Jim Kibler's southern mountain rifle kit.  You will plainly see the differences.  All that really matters IMO are your objectives.  For a well made and good shooting gun at a modest cost TVM is a good choice.  With the Chambers late Ketland lock, it is certainly a better choice than TOW's southern mountain rifle kit that uses a Siler lock. However, if you want a gun that accurately represents a southern mountain rifle from the 1st quarter of the 19th century, Jim Kibler's kit is a better choice.  If you are left handed, the choices really narrow to TVM and a few others. 

dave

[hanshi]

TVM guns are built from a plank, the same as most other builders.  As such the differences between each of his guns is noticeable, even between examples of the same models, on examination.  I already had a couple of muzzleloaders when I decided to get a TVM.  After dealing with them, I was so impressed with these good people, that I got a couple more over the next few years.

Matt prefers the customer to stay in frequent touch and be as specific a possible.  He also offers friendly and superior after purchase service.  His guns are rather generic and not bench copies of existing guns; but that often is the case with most custom builders.  The guns are accurate, reliable, fit well and look very fine.  Mike Brooks can spot a TVM easily but he has studied and built guns for decades; the average shooter would have to look at the name on the barrel.  They are a good as most any custom gun built today; they just reflect Matt's interpretation of a particular gun/style.  Sometimes Matt's guns could have been trimmed up some, but not all are like that.  Tip and Matt are similar in style and quality in my opinion.  The bottom four are my TVM guns, the lock is off the first rifle.

[axelp]

I have not studied many ml guns, but like Mr Brooks I can spot a TVM gun fairly quickly. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. I know many of you guys can id other makers by the build architecture, carving and whatnot. French, English, Germanic, American... they all have their identifying features.  TVM makes 12 different styles from different eras with very different features... And does a pretty large number each year. I think the biggest challenge for a contemporary ml gun maker like TVM is to hit the various historic styles and not end up throwing in some of their own style points or merging that of other styles into these guns.

[EC121]

Judging by the style of rifle you ordered, you can't go too far wrong with the good parts and pretty wood.  Poorboys can be made in almost any fashion and be right.  The complaints come when people start adding options.  You will get a good shootable rifle.   If  you want to have some fun with it, tell people it is a poorboy styled after some fictitious county and see how many even know you are pulling their leg.

[Steve Patterson]

Judging by the style of rifle you ordered, you can't go too far wrong with the good parts and pretty wood.  Poorboys can be made in almost any fashion and be right.  The complaints come when people start adding options.  You will get a good shootable rifle.   If  you want to have some fun with it, tell people it is a poorboy styled after some fictitious county and see how many even know you are pulling their leg.

Legern family from Foghorn Co VA 

[Dennis Glazener]

Smokey,
If I were you I would not think of canceling the order. I suspect once you shoot a flint rifle a few times you will either be hooked and looking forward to your next rifle or you will lose interest and not use it a lot going forward (probably the former). So for now just wait for your rifle to be completed. You can't get a better barrel or lock and they are the two most important parts of a flint rifle, shoot it then decide whether you want to invest a lot more money for a sleeker/sexier looking rifle.
Dennis

[Smokey Plainsman]

Guys thanks to some words of encouragementarion, I think I’m going to keep the TVM order going.

Might not be what some people want but for my needs, the shoe fits.