Author Topic: Hole in L & R breech plug New photos plug is out (Read 4695 times)

steg49 · « **on:** December 23, 2018, 03:47:13 AM »

Here is my Christmas present for this year! Shot my favorite rifle today (shoot it every week) that I made about 20 years ago. Must have over 10,000 round through it, still shoot right on. But today wen I started cleaning I noticed black deposits in the barrel channel just behind the thread line for the breech plug. Upon examination I found a small pin hole in the plug behind the threads. This hole runs towards the breech end of the plug. Here is the question, easy solution drill out the pin hole and thread then insert proper fitting small plug (like a clean out screw) and clean it every time I shoot. second solution is to remove the breech plug and replace with a new L&R plug. third solution is to rebarrel the rifle with new everything. At this point I'm thinking easy way by drilling, then later next year (not to far off) replace the barrel. anyone ever seen something like this and I'm open to suggestion. Thanks steg49

EC121 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 23, 2018, 03:54:42 AM »

I would start by unbreeching it for a look at the other end of the hole. It might be funnel shaped.

David R. Pennington · « **Reply #2 on:** December 23, 2018, 06:07:36 AM »

If it were mine I would certainly pull breech plug and have a look before I loaded it again.

BOB HILL · « **Reply #3 on:** December 23, 2018, 07:21:57 AM »

Just curious, has any synthetic powder ever been used in this barrel?
Bob

Mad Monk · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2018, 08:16:15 AM »

I have seen two like that back in the 1980s. Both were pit corrosion holes. Pull that plug and check. You may be surprised to see two or three more holes that just have not exited the breech plug yet. Looks like classic pit corrosion driven by the pressure developed when firing the gun. The holes are usually V shaped with a wide mouth inside the plug.

Bill K.

steg49 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 23, 2018, 09:02:49 AM »

I'm not planning on firing this rifle until I get it fixed. I only used black powder and I clean by hot soapy water, swabs and pipe cleaner into the nipple hole till it enters the barrel, then dry swab, then enough wd40 so that oil flows out the nipple hole. Is this an L&R problem with their casting? I can't believe that my cleaning would leave enough residue to corrode the inside of the breech. steg49

stikshooter · « **Reply #6 on:** December 23, 2018, 03:53:27 PM »

I was told wd 40 is a water displacer not an oil that stays put and hot water promotes flash rust ,so yup could be your cleaning methods . I use cold water and ballistol ,works for me /Ed

GeezerD · « **Reply #7 on:** December 23, 2018, 05:18:58 PM »

steg49 - I am in the process of building a fullstock Hawken. When fitting the L&R breechplug , I noticed a small pinhole in the tang casting. It turned out to be a substantial void in the casting and also a couple of carbon inclusions were noticed. I then checked the breechplug but didn't see any problems with it. However, being a safety issue I replaced the entire breechplug and tang with a brand of breechplug from Track of the Wolf that has been x-rayed and certified. --------- Good Luck, GeezerD

rich pierce · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2018, 05:33:40 PM »

That’s a casting problem not a cleaning problem in my view. I’ve taken down originals with the powder chamber so eroded that there’s no rifling left there and the plugs are still solid.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2018, 05:44:38 PM »

If I encounter that problem I would probably drive tapered pins into the small voids
and the pressure of the load firing would keep them in place.I think THIS is the very
reason that Art Resell coded and X-rayed the plugs he sold from the revived Hawken Shop
in St.Louis.

Bob Roller

Mattox Forge · « **Reply #10 on:** December 23, 2018, 05:51:23 PM »

I would be very interested to see what the breech and barrel look like when you disassemble them. I wonder if it could possibly be gas erosion from a small leak in the threads. 10,000 rounds is a LOT of shots for any gun, so I wouldn't be too hard on the casting just yet.

Mike

Bob Roller · « **Reply #11 on:** December 23, 2018, 08:50:12 PM »

WD40 is a water displacer and that's what the "WD" represents.
It can also lift the finish on some woods.I don't know which so
I don't use it as any part of cleaning any gun.

Bob Roller

45-110 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 23, 2018, 09:13:55 PM »

never seen wd 40 lift a finish in over 50 yrs of using it...I use it daily in my shop along with "other oils". No doubt it happened sometime some where. I do a lot of work on Sharps, Winchesters, Ballards ect along with muzzle loaders and oil saturation is something to control by not over doing it. I have seen finishes affected by oils in use years before wd-40 came out.

Mad Monk · « **Reply #13 on:** December 23, 2018, 09:35:56 PM »

Finish lifting with WD 40 depends on what sort of finish you are dealing with. Plain boiled linseed oil is prone to softening and eventual lifting of the finish when various oils are left on the finish for any length of time. Boiled oil varnishes are far more resistant to this softening and lifting. WD 40 consists of a light lubricating oil and then two liquid hydrocarbons that act as solvents/diluents for the oil. If you don't thin the basic oil out it cannot penetrate into very small gaps or openings. It is described as "water displacing" when in fact it is more water absorbing. If you watch this under a strong microscope you see the WD 40 absorbing the water as very minute beads into the combined oil and solvent. Removal of the water is by evaporation and takes a considerable amount of time. I got into that in the chemical plant I had worked in when a mechanic spray parts of a high speed hammer mill with WD 40. Within a few days the hammer mill disintegrated.

Getting back to the finish lifting thing. I forgot something. When you apply simply boiled oil as a finish the finish is porous. The specific gravity of "dried" boiled linseed oil is less than 1.00. When you add resins you raise that specific gravity above 1.00. Greatly reducing the permeability of the finish films and reducing the ability of the film to absorb other oils.
Whilst on a roll. Straight boiled oil finishes are also damaged by strong caustic cleaners. The caustic cleaner contact begins to turn the polymerized boiled oil film into a soap. In some parts of Russia where flax was grown in large amounts they made cleaning soaps from linseed oil due to a lack of animal fats available for soap making. I laughed at that. The idea of a soap that leaves you skin and clothing smelling like a bottle of linseed oil.

Bill K.

Daryl · « **Reply #14 on:** December 23, 2018, 10:22:36 PM »

That very same thing happened to my 1 1 /8"
69's breech, except the hole came out the top flat. A casting flaw. Taylor replaced it. All's well.

kutter · « **Reply #15 on:** December 24, 2018, 01:37:03 AM »

Pull it off, replace it with a new plug. Proof it, and go on.

Look that old one over just for curiosity sake. But most likely casting flaw(s) that were there all the while.
If you know anyone that could Xray it it would be interesting to see 'inside'.
You wouldn't use the plug if it was a new, unfitted part and appeared like that.

It's not the place to be filling holes that start appearing on the outside,,and then hope that's all there is to them on the inside.

JMO

steg49 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 24, 2018, 02:12:07 AM »

I'm going to pull this one off (make take a while) then I'll post more photos. I do think it is an internal flaw but we will see. Thanks for all the input.

Daryl · « **Reply #17 on:** December 24, 2018, 05:19:05 AM »

Mine was a casting flaw, that appeared some time after I started shooting the piece. Before removing the plug. Taylor went fishing in the hole with a hooked dental pic. He said it went in, curving this way and that for roughly 1/2". Upon removing the plug, we found a hole inside the patent breaches anti chamber that linked with the exterior hole, just what we expected. The internal chamber was always there, just taking a bunch of shòoting to be broken into and show itself.
Pls, do NOT attempt to repair it.
Replacement is the best option.

bgf · « **Reply #18 on:** December 24, 2018, 05:47:18 AM »

Many of those percussion breeches have a very thin wall where the nipple connects to the chamber with a straight line, but I've never heard of one having pinholes anywhere else, until now! Makes me wonder about my Flint chambered breeches. Especially on my chunk gun, a pinhole could be "exciting".

Bob Roller · « **Reply #19 on:** December 24, 2018, 10:44:07 PM »

Quote from: Daryl on December 23, 2018, 10:22:36 PM

That very same thing happened to my 1 1 /8"
69's breech, except the hole came out the top flat. A casting flaw. Taylor replaced it. All's well.

If a pin hole occurred on the bottom flat maybe it could be
used to move the loading rod out of position for a fast reload

Bob Roller

Daryl · « **Reply #20 on:** December 24, 2018, 11:03:07 PM »

Very funny, Bob. Kinda like a built-in pressure relief and trapped air bleed.

Just joking boys.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #21 on:** December 24, 2018, 11:11:29 PM »

In my view cast breech plugs = bad idea. I've worked in a foundry and had too many dealings with foundries. X-ray is a good choice if using castings, but I still wouldn't fo that route.

Jim

steg49 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 25, 2018, 02:18:38 AM »

The plug is out and I can't see the crack or hole although I know it is there from the oil that flowed out when cleaned and the residue on the bottom flat of my barrel channel. Bob a few more shots and I would have been able to vent through the bottom of my stock

This is an internal flaw and must be very fine crack as I could not get a fine wire to pass into the chamber. Photos of barrel threads, plug threads, and inside of plug. steg49

c350 coupe 0 60

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #23 on:** December 25, 2018, 04:19:05 AM »

Don't spend any more time on this. The plug is toast. Replace it.

alacran · « **Reply #24 on:** December 25, 2018, 03:56:15 PM »

Glad to see it is not a Griffith plug.

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Author Topic: Hole in L & R breech plug New photos plug is out (Read 4695 times)

GeezerD