Can you cut at muzzle if you cone?

[Smokey Plainsman]

Guys quick question, if you cone your muzzle so you can get rid of a short starter in your bag, can you still cut at the muzzle or do you have to use pre cuts? Thanks,

-Smokey

[smokinbuck]

You can absolutely cut at the muzzle. All you are doing is eliminating the need for a short starter.
Mark

[OldMtnMan]

You can still cut. The difference is you won't need to use a ball starter.

Edit........Looks like we posted at the same time.

[Turtle]

 But why would you want too? Pushing a patched ball onto the cone with one hand is one of the big advantages of a coned muzzle. Why make it less simple? A loading block with patched balls in it is like magic to ease loading with a cone. 2 steps-charge barrel and push patched ball down-and done.

[OldMtnMan]

But why would you want too? Pushing a patched ball onto the cone with one hand is one of the big advantages of a coned muzzle. Why make it less simple? A loading block with patched balls in it is like magic to ease loading with a cone. 2 steps-charge barrel and push patched ball down-and done.

Some like to cut at the muzzle. I'm one of them. I did use loading boards for awhile but that is the same cutting at the board instead of the muzzle. Those who cut at the muzzle usually don't like precut patches or loading boards.

[Smokey Plainsman]

But why would you want too? Pushing a patched ball onto the cone with one hand is one of the big advantages of a coned muzzle. Why make it less simple? A loading block with patched balls in it is like magic to ease loading with a cone. 2 steps-charge barrel and push patched ball down-and done.

Sounds neat turtle but I抦 not big on loading blocks as they aren抰 period at least until later into the percussion times. I抦 a recreationalist and if shooting fast as possible was my goal Id get an unmentionable out lol.

Was just hoping I can cut at the muzzle still because IDK I always just really enjoyed that method, it is fun and gives me an excuse to get patch knives. Seems like you can still do it, tremendous! What coning tools y抋ll been using?

[Daryl]

If the cone is too large at the muzzle, the ball might rotate as you apply pressure while cutting, or when gathering up the excess cloth to cut.  I watched a fellow at rendezvous having that trouble with his coned muzzle.
So-trouble or not might depend on dimensions.
Using pre cuts would alleviate the problem IF it existed.

[Smokey Plainsman]

If the cone is too large at the muzzle, the ball might rotate as you apply pressure while cutting, or when gathering up the excess cloth to cut.  I watched a fellow at rendezvous having that trouble with his coned muzzle.
So-trouble or not might depend on dimensions.
Using pre cuts would alleviate the problem IF it existed.

I see. Better to not make the coning to deep and preserve some rifling at the muzzle, perhaps?

[Daryl]

I think that cone was well over groove diameter at the muzzle and that the rifling likey started more than the pressed-in ball depth thus not having being tight enough to hold the ball while cutting the patch.
I do not recall that shooter being happy with his chunk target, the match we were shooting.
I am not a fan of coning.
If you want a "tool" to make your crown, DaveC2 is perfecting one right now, to cut a very accurate crown.

[Longknife]

Guys quick question, if you cone your muzzle so you can get rid of a short starter in your bag, can you still cut at the muzzle or do you have to use pre cuts? Thanks,

-Smokey

Smokey, Yes, you can absolutely cut your patches at the muzzle on a coned barrel, IF it is not coned too much. When coning a barrel I test fit a patch and ball several times as I cone until I get the patch ball combo seated just where I want it with thumb pressure....Ed

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=4375.0

[Smokey Plainsman]

Awesome, thank you guys!

Always seem some stay coning ruins accuracy, others say no affect...

[shifty]

 
         Yes you can cut at the muzzle and i don't use loading blocks anymore ,the lube gets messed up dirty etc. I cone all of my ml's i  just cone alittle and check ball and patch until they will just go into the bore flush with the muzzle and no more,i can tell no difference in accuracy.

[Mike from OK]

But why would you want too? Pushing a patched ball onto the cone with one hand is one of the big advantages of a coned muzzle. Why make it less simple? A loading block with patched balls in it is like magic to ease loading with a cone. 2 steps-charge barrel and push patched ball down-and done.

Sounds neat turtle but I抦 not big on loading blocks as they aren抰 period at least until later into the percussion times. I抦 a recreationalist and if shooting fast as possible was my goal Id get an unmentionable out lol.

Was just hoping I can cut at the muzzle still because IDK I always just really enjoyed that method, it is fun and gives me an excuse to get patch knives. Seems like you can still do it, tremendous! What coning tools y抋ll been using?

I don't buy the bullet boards as a later invention... Is there documentation of it in the earlier era? None that we've found... But there is also zero documentation that people put their socks on BEFORE putting their shoes on.

It strikes me that some things are so practically mundane that they don't bear mentioning for purposes of posterity..

Mike

[OldMtnMan]

Some ball boards have been found in pretty old looking kits.

Just like cutting at the muzzle and pre-cut patches. Some probably used boards. If we can think of the idea now. They could have back then too.

[rich pierce]

I will find out pretty soon.  A relic rifle I picked up is in shooting shape now.  The barrel was coned or filed originally to a depth of over an inch.  Even after freshing and bringing it from a .34 to a .36 it still is easy to load with the rod only.  Hope to shoot it by the weekend. Will give a range report.

[Elnathan]

But why would you want too? Pushing a patched ball onto the cone with one hand is one of the big advantages of a coned muzzle. Why make it less simple? A loading block with patched balls in it is like magic to ease loading with a cone. 2 steps-charge barrel and push patched ball down-and done.

Sounds neat turtle but I抦 not big on loading blocks as they aren抰 period at least until later into the percussion times. I抦 a recreationalist and if shooting fast as possible was my goal Id get an unmentionable out lol.

Was just hoping I can cut at the muzzle still because IDK I always just really enjoyed that method, it is fun and gives me an excuse to get patch knives. Seems like you can still do it, tremendous! What coning tools y抋ll been using?

I don't buy the bullet boards as a later invention... Is there documentation of it in the earlier era? None that we've found... But there is also zero documentation that people put their socks on BEFORE putting their shoes on.

It strikes me that some things are so practically mundane that they don't bear mentioning for purposes of posterity..

Mike

The Draper manuscripts alone comprise 500 volumes - around 20,000 pages total, I think I read somewhere - of documentation on frontier life. Quite a bit of information in there, even on quite mundane things. You'd think that if they were used, somewhere there would be a mention of someone getting dropping his board or getting it tangled while fighting Indians or something.

[Daryl]

My findings and meager experience with loading a coned muzzle on a gun made by one of the lads here, was that quite loose combinations (by my standards) could easily be loaded.  Also, a tight load was almost impossible to load  even with a short starter.  The reason for this anomaly is pure physics  and had to do with angles associated with "drawing" metals.
My non-coned muzzle, same calibre, loaded that  combination easily, with starter & the rifle's 3/8"rod.