Why Age Contemporary Pieces?

[Pukka Bundook]

As Hungry Hoss says above.

In my case, it is very simple. I Like Looking at old guns, so Why carry one that looks brand new?  ...No character.


Each to his own and all that.   

[Mike Brooks]

Someone mentioned artificially antiqued furniture. Well, my wife was a professional artists for 30+ years and we traveled to atr shows every weekend. There was a furniture maker at one that had a Hudson Valley styled table and chairs made out of some of the curliest red maple I ever saw It was all hand made and beautifully antiqued. Nicks dings burn marks on everything and the darkish stain rubbed back in appropriate places with patina actually built up in other places. It was one of the most impressive piece of functional art I have ever seen. Magnificent. He want 18K for the whole set back in the late 90's. I figured that to be quite a bargain. The table must have been almost 5' wide by 12' Long with 8 or 10 chairs. The whole set was stunning with the curly red maple. Hand plane marks on the table top and light tool marks from a draw knife here and there on the chairs. It was all very warm and inviting. Wouldn't have even been worth looking at  with a new style sterile finish.

[WadePatton]

Excellent example Mike, sounds like some really fantastic stuff. I tried to counter the notion that "no one ages furniture" tossed out there earlier, but had no fantastic example as you shared.

I have a pal in the Uvula-state who makes a few dollars selling conference-sized tables made of a single, live edged slabs.  These aren't "aged" but do a lot to show how much folks want to pull the raw outdoors (and unique workmanship) into their typically sterile work environments.

How terribly boring the world would be if every new rifle/gun looked exactly like a brand new rifle/gun regardless of the style or history of the style of arms.

Personally again, some one shows me a modern piece "as new" and all I see is a blank canvas for an engraver.  And just exactly how interesting are blank canvases anyway?  Longrifles on the other hand can have enough style points on their own to not need engraving if it's not called for by the style or level of execution of the gun. But if the longrifle smells like the workshop and appears to have never been to camp or seen any storms or travels--it only has "history" in it's design and none yet in it's character.

Faux-ing one up can give some semblance of great character.  It must not look intentional just the same as the folk-animals cannot actually look like animals.  Takes time, skill, and experience to be really good and that's why there'll always be plenty of "as new" type guns for trade. Time, skill, and experience should get a premium.

[Tim Crosby]

However (and I claim no expertise in this), does this apply as much to copies/reproductions of things like period furniture?  There are a lot of great makers out there but I don't recall ever seeing an intentionally aged tilt-top table, a Connecticut Valley high-boy, or the like.  I'm sure some makers will intentionally age furniture for reasons other than illicit faking but I suspect the tendency is far less prevalent than it is in the long rifle world.

 No offence but maybe you have not been looking for it or have been in the right places. I used to do period furniture with Stained, hand rubbed finishes but got away from it when I found painted aged pieces
sold better and to me looked better. No intention to be sold as old just aged to look old. Anymore everything I do is aged to some point.
 An example are horns, I have left horns plain, they look to extravagantly bright or showy, almost tasteless. As finished some of them go through 3 or 4 shows that way. I age them and inevitably they sell at the next show or Two. I have never had anyone ask me for a plain horn. Seeing what sells, aged horns, gives some indication as to their popularity.
 Here are a couple of Pix of a Long Rifle chest I did sometime ago, when it was "New" it just did not have the appeal that it does after aging. Even the interior was aged a bit.

  Tim C.
   

[120RIR]

Wow...I love the design of the rifle case and yeah, perhaps I have been looking in the wrong places for aged furniture!  Mr. Brooks' tale of one of his bags showing up in later years well-patinated is very much like a couple of very comparable incidents I know of.  A now-passed friend of mine was the most outstanding leatherworker anyone has ever seen and did some incredible reproductions/copies of 18th and 19th century military and civilian equipment.  Some of his pieces show up in Troiani's paintings, reside in museum collections now, etc.  Anyhow, he once spotted one of his earlier Civil War cartridge boxes at the Baltimore show many years ago being offered as an original.  It had 20+ years of reenacting wear and age on it but his own maker's mark! Similarly, several years ago I saw one of my sterling gorgets with the engraved British coat-of-arms on it being offered on Ebay as an original Rev War Brit officer's piece.  I tried to contact the seller a number of times and Ebay but never got any resolution on that one.  I seem to recall he listed it at an outrageous price so hopefully no-one got stuck.

[WadePatton]

and that's the sticky wicket right there.

Make your mark and don't be a party to a falsehood, but then you can't quite control things once sold.

[hanshi]

My wife used to be an antique dealer and we had quite a bit of really old furniture.  Most of it is gone - too much moving - but we did have a mid 1800s dining room table & chairs.  Even at 150 plus years old, one had to look closely at the construction to become aware of its age.  A lot depends on how something is cared for.

In the matter of "if guns could talk", mine would be yelling "GET ME AWAY FROM THIS CLOWN"!  But I do try my best.

[Mick C]

If you guys will allow, I'll chime in.  Most all original guns I have had been fortunate to see have a certain look to both the metal and wood that is unarguably beautiful but I don't like my contemporary guns to look old enough to be original.  However I don't mind them looking well used, well loved, and well cared for.  That is how I would describe many of the examples often shared here.  Does that makes sense? ...Mick C

[WadePatton]

If you guys will allow, I'll chime in.  Most all original guns I have had been fortunate to see have a certain look to both the metal and wood that is unarguably beautiful but I don't like my contemporary guns to look old enough to be original.  However I don't mind them looking well used, well loved, and well cared for.  That is how I would describe many of the examples often shared here.  Does that makes sense? ...Mick C

Yeah, that old guns looks better. 

[snapper]

To each his own.  I like new ML to look new. 

I can add my own patina honestly.  What is a modern made ML that has been aged going to look like in 200 years?

This is not meant to mean that things are falsely done, or negative to anyone that likes aged ML. 

As I stated to each his own and we all have different likes and dislikes.

A good friend of mine when I was growing up made the comment to me once that if we all had the same taste in women, we would all be chasing his wife.

Fleener

[bob in the woods]

For my own personal use, I like them with the "new" worn off.  I can take a new shiny gun moose hunting, and after a week or so in camp and in the bottom of a canoe, it comes home nicely aged .

[Smokey Plainsman]

As Hungry Hoss says above.

In my case, it is very simple. I Like Looking at old guns, so Why carry one that looks brand new?  ...No character.


Each to his own and all that.   

So you can give it honest character, yourself.

[Pukka Bundook]

I'm not quite with you Smokey, but as I make what I shoot, yes, I do it as pleases me.  :-)

Does anyone remember going to school in brand new leather shoes? ...................When they squeaked as one walked?
Well I don't want to be carrying a rifle like that.   LOL!

[WadePatton]

I'm not quite with you Smokey, but as I make what I shoot, yes, I do it as pleases me.  :-)

Does anyone remember going to school in brand new leather shoes? ...................When they squeaked as one walked?
Well I don't want to be carrying a rifle like that.   LOL!

Or the new cardboard stiff denim jeans, because last year's jeans were slashed into cut-offs back in the Summer and short pants weren't legal in school.  As bad as a fresh hair-cut on picture day.  With an August b-day,  often my "back to school" items doubled as b-day gifts.

Say what kind of lube were you greasing up your shoes with? Mine were usually canvas, no squeaks.
 

[Mike Brooks]

As Hungry Hoss says above.

In my case, it is very simple. I Like Looking at old guns, so Why carry one that looks brand new?  ...No character.


Each to his own and all that.   

So you can give it honest character, yourself.

I must assume then that those of us that age guns are then "dishonest"? Thanks...…

I always enjoy the idea that guys prefer to age there "like new" guns "honestly" like they did in the old days. Ain't going to happen. You "honest" agers live in a climate controlled environment, you're guns are airconditioned in the summer and heated in the winter. You may go out hunting a few times during the year  and to a few weekend shoots. It would take you twenty lifetimes to equal the use most of the old guns saw in one year in mainly unpleasant conditions with out the benefit of todays modern finishes and miracle lubricants.

 Artificial ageing is a continuation of the artform that is what we call building today's  muzzleloading rifle. Very few people even understand that there is art involved in the basic building process let alone the ageing process. I see a lot of gunbuilders, I see few artists.

 I've been thinking several weeks  about starting a rambling thread called "Artistic Inspiration" and how it relates to building muzzleloaders....it may be time to do that.

[snapper]

It is obvious that people like aged and non aged pieces.  Supply and demand.   Nether are wrong.  Just personal preference. 

I drive ford pickups, Lund boats,.54 cal rifles and good whiskey   

Fleener

[galudwig]

As Hungry Hoss says above.

In my case, it is very simple. I Like Looking at old guns, so Why carry one that looks brand new?  ...No character.


Each to his own and all that.   

So you can give it honest character, yourself.

I must assume then that those of us that age guns are then "dishonest"? Thanks...…

I always enjoy the idea that guys prefer to age there "like new" guns "honestly" like they did in the old days. Ain't going to happen. You "honest" agers live in a climate controlled environment, you're guns are airconditioned in the summer and heated in the winter. You may go out hunting a few times during the year  and to a few weekend shoots. It would take you twenty lifetimes to equal the use most of the old guns saw in one year in mainly unpleasant conditions with out the benefit of todays modern finishes and miracle lubricants.

 Artificial ageing is a continuation of the artform that is what we call building today's  muzzleloading rifle. Very few people even understand that there is art involved in the basic building process let alone the ageing process. I see a lot of gunbuilders, I see few artists.

 I've been thinking several weeks  about starting a rambling thread called "Artistic Inspiration" and how it relates to building muzzleloaders....it may be time to do that.

Then apparently gun builders who do not age their guns are not artists? Thanks.......  Apparently you have to take your brand new longrifle and have your family live in a lean-to in the Montana back country for twenty generations to get a "real" patina on it to match that of an artificially aged one. The character being written on guns actually being used by people for hunting or competition is meaningless. Thanks....... Apparently the only way to truly appreciate the basic processes of building today's muzzleloaders is to have an artificially aged one built, stuff it in a safe, and show it off occasionally to other collectors? Thanks....... Sorry, but you opened the door to more generalization by generalizing. Until artists start living/working in non-climate controlled environments, I don't think they have much room to criticize the rest of us.

I'm drawn to a new, well made contemporary gun (aged or not) for many of the same reasons that I am drawn to to an original. However, I never kid myself that a new gun (aged or not) has some kind of backstory. To me, the gun's story started with the builder's imagination or the original buyers fantasy. The story continues and builds to every time the gun is passed to another owner. That was true of the originals and it's true of the contemporaries (aged or not). The character our contemporary guns obtain through use is no less credible than that of the character obtained over the years by originals. The degree and manner in which they were attained may be different but who says they have to be equal? I'd also like to know where in the longrifle builders handbook it says that a gun has to be artificially aged to look 200+ years old in order for it to be considered art? So much for "each his own."

[Mike Brooks]

Aw, just forget about it.....
 Makes my intended post about "Artistic inspiration" a complete waste of time.

[blienemann]

Moderators = would it be possible to put up a vote button or counter to see how many folks like new, slightly aged, more aging, or relic condition for Art Riser?  I like several of these.  There is no wrong or right in preference.

But there is wrong or right in misleading someone now, or down the road.  The rifle should be signed and dated in a prominent location.  I've had customers want a Hawken, Leman or earlier piece built, stamped or signed, aged but they don't want my name and date on it.  No thanks.  I've heard stories of a contemp builder(s) stocking up and aging a classic rifle like a Beck, no date and lay it on table at KRA.  Some folks got all excited about a "new" original rifle, then were angry and embarrassed.  It might flatter the builder to be able to fool people, but that is not the ethical way to pursue our craft.  Bob

[Jim Kibler]

I’ll bet most don’t think I would be the sort to beat up a new rifle, but with the help of Katherine, we’ve been doing exactly that.  Along with lots if rusting and fake patina.  I’m loving it!  Don’t understand why some are so passionate one way or the other???

[Richard]

Why Age Contemporary Pieces?
It’s a subjective question that has an infinite number of reasons. 
The ageless saying “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder” is why.
I liked Mikes reference to Artistic Inspiration. I think he breathes life into his guns.

[Smokey Plainsman]

As Hungry Hoss says above.

In my case, it is very simple. I Like Looking at old guns, so Why carry one that looks brand new?  ...No character.


Each to his own and all that.   

So you can give it honest character, yourself.

I must assume then that those of us that age guns are then "dishonest"? Thanks...…

I always enjoy the idea that guys prefer to age there "like new" guns "honestly" like they did in the old days. Ain't going to happen. You "honest" agers live in a climate controlled environment, you're guns are airconditioned in the summer and heated in the winter. You may go out hunting a few times during the year  and to a few weekend shoots. It would take you twenty lifetimes to equal the use most of the old guns saw in one year in mainly unpleasant conditions with out the benefit of todays modern finishes and miracle lubricants.

 Artificial ageing is a continuation of the artform that is what we call building today's  muzzleloading rifle. Very few people even understand that there is art involved in the basic building process let alone the ageing process. I see a lot of gunbuilders, I see few artists.

 I've been thinking several weeks  about starting a rambling thread called "Artistic Inspiration" and how it relates to building muzzleloaders....it may be time to do that.

That’s twisting my words but if that IS how you want to see things, then I’ve got just as much say in it as those that say new looking guns have “no character”. It’s all personal preference. And even if what someone builds doesn’t look like “art” to you, or isn’t “art” because it isn’t an exact clone of the lines somebody made their rifle with 200 years ago, that doesn’t mean anything. It all just sounds a mite bit pretentious to this old country boy...

[Mike Brooks]

Some people admire Picasso's paintings as some of the greatest art ever. Me, not so much. Maybe if it had some dirt rubbed on it I'd like it better.... 


Also I'd like to make an important point that continually annoys me. (I'm nearly always continually annoyed these days anyway) It seems if you age a gun it is  automatically is assumed you're trying to immulate "200 years of age" (oh how I tire of this). I read this every time this subject comes up. Actually that assumption is far from the truth. I and others "usually" "try"  to age a rifle to some point it may have looked like in  it's period  of working  life, lets say 5 to 20 years old give or take. "Generally" this involves  some nicks and bumps and some variation in color as well as some built up patina. To me this treatment "warms up and mellows" the artistic impression you're trying to make with the building of the gun. TO ME AND POSSIBLY ME ONLY, "as new" guns can be very cold, dead, "static" and uninviting no matter how well they are executed. But this isn't ALWAYS the case. I have seen "as new" guns I like, but they have to be exceptional to  turn my head.

 There are exceptions, IN MY OPINION, AND POSSIBLY MY OPINION ONLY. Kibler's guns are alive, I never noticed and am quite surprised they weren't aged as they are so warm. Taylor's guns are alive as well, probably has alot to do with his precise execution and  superior artistic ability. Prat's guns actually have a life of their own and can give the viewer an emotional experience...oh wait , they don't count because they are aged..... I could ramble on with my assessments but you guys are probably pulling out your hair so I'll quit. (for a while ) All said and done, it don't make much difference what I think, figure out what you like a go with it.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Some people admire Picasso's paintings as some of the greatest art ever. Me, not so much. Maybe if it had some dirt rubbed on it I'd like it better.... 

Oh....  well I thought they did have dirt rubbed all over them, and thought maybe that was why they looked like $#@* and made no sense!  Here I am thinking they just needed to be cleaned.

[oldtravler61]

  Well it all boils down too. You don't like it some of us do. So what ! Who really cares.. ! I like them all but like a good friend of mine said. A gun has to have soul, appeal. What you like is your business but I'm with Mike. It has to have something going for it. If it's all pretty and shiny I don't even want to touch it let alone pick it up and handle it. Maybe that's why I like them southern guns so much.!  Done ranting....!  Oldtravler