Author Topic: Lock work  (Read 2526 times)

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Lock work
« on: December 27, 2018, 03:30:41 AM »
Currently I'm putting together a percussion pistol for a buddy.  He has assembled most of the components which include a 15/16" AF x .50 cal x 10" GM barrel, a 1" Hawken hooked breech and tang, an L & R Hawken lock, a nice iron trigger guard, a L & R single set trigger assembly, and a collection of small pieces and screws.
What he's after is a saw-handled target pistol.  He's a very big man with big hands and long fingers.  But that L & R lock needed to be reduced in dimensions and while I was at it, I turned it.
I removed everything from the plate that hung out past the guts, allowing of course, enough for a solid inlet.
The bridle got some filing to remove radii and give it a little grace, and was dressed on the back and front and all edges.
The sear also was filed to remove the radius behind the screw boss, where the sear spring is supposed to bear.  More on that in a bit.  The faces of the sear were filed to improve the bearings, and again, add to its shape for aesthetics.  Bridle and sear polished to 180 grit.
The sear spring as it arrived, has been ground off on the lower leg so that it rests on the sear at least 1/8" back of the sear screw boss.  This gives the lock about a ten pound sear release.  This is the second such lock I've worked on recently, and I sent detailed comments and photos to L & R to address the issue, but obviously to no avail.  To fix the problem, I heated the spring red and straightened out the spring stock, gently tapping it flat.  I then polished the metal on both sides, thinning the metal that would become the lower leg.  Then I heated it red again and bent the leg under, starting right at the back end of the retaining stud.  I tapped it closed and arched the lower leg.  Then I re-polished it, and tried it gently in the lock.  Now the leg was too long, and I could not push it down into it's position. So I reduced the lower leg length little by little until it snapped down against the sear.  Happy with the arrangement, I removed the spring, and hardened and tempered it in the flame of my propane torch.  One must be careful when tempering to get the steel evenly heated.  It was in and out of the flame frequently until I was satisfied the colour was correct and even.
Now the sear has a lovely crisp, light, snappy action.
The full cock notch on the tumbler was too aggressive.  I filed it square with the tumbler's axis and l polished it to 1200 grit.
The stirrup is a casting and needed to be completely filed and dressed to create round feet on both ends.
The mainspring is one of L & R's new forged springs.  They seem well made albeit rough.  And it was way too strong.  So I tapered both legs, filing a considerable amount of steel off, and while I was at it, I cut bevels on both legs, and dressed up the hook.  After polishing to 180 grit, and reassembling, I found the action still strong, but much better.  The spring now has a more lively feel.
The outside and inside of the plate needed to be ground to remove hollows, and then was polished to 180 grit.
The hammer still needs filing and polishing, the hammer cup split and the thumb stud chequered, but that will come.
It's amazing how you can use up almost a full day.  But it is satisfying work.
Did it need all that?  Probably not.  The lock functioned fine as it was out of the box, and I suspect it was every bit as good as an original Golcher.  But where's the challenge and fun in that?











« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 03:36:38 AM by D. Taylor Sapergia »
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Curtis

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Re: Lock work
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2018, 07:34:32 AM »
Very nice work and an excellent dissertation of the process, Taylor!  I bet the lock works like a Swiss watch after the overhaul.  The reworked plate makes for a slick looking lock.  Thanks for posting.

Curtis
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline J. Talbert

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Re: Lock work
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2018, 07:55:56 AM »
Nice makeover Taylor.
It should look great in the pistol.  I hope you will show us.

Jeff
There are no solutions.  There are only trade-offs.”
Thomas Sowell

Offline M. E. Pering

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Re: Lock work
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2018, 08:22:06 AM »
Beautiful work, Mr. Sapergia.  Though I could muster the patience to do this, it would have to be a special gun.  When I tune one, I normally finish the interior lockplate too, as well as the moving parts, but not much else.  Just beautiful work.

Matt

Offline Daryl

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Re: Lock work
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2018, 09:23:06 AM »
Well documented, Taylor.  Nice work as always.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline redheart

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Re: Lock work
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2018, 08:54:31 PM »
Gee, What a shocker! Perfect work coming from D. Taylor ;)

Offline deepcreekdale

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Re: Lock work
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2018, 09:06:49 PM »
Nice work. Looks great. I have a question. I have had an issue with some L&R locks having the holes for the tumbler in the lock plate and in the bridle being as cast as well as the  tumbler itself. Some locks are a loose enough fit that they rattle before you put on the springs. Any suggestions on how to fix this? I have bushed them and turned the tumbler in a lathe to smooth and polish those surfaces but that takes longer probably than building from scratch. Ideas?
”Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.” Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Lock work
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2018, 10:15:24 PM »
I also had one with the short sear spring....Will they sell an un-fitted ear spring? 

Ideas for crappy loose tolerances??? Pay a lot more...

 How about this outfit?  https://firelocksllc.com/  I have been watching the site and asked for an alert when locks are made, so for no word. 

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Lock work
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2018, 05:13:18 PM »
I also had one with the short sear spring....Will they sell an un-fitted ear spring? 

Ideas for crappy loose tolerances??? Pay a lot more...

 How about this outfit?  https://firelocksllc.com/  I have been watching the site and asked for an alert when locks are made, so for no word.

Just tried to reach firelocksllc and got a white page saying "Not Available".
Making a lock even halfway properly done is a labor intensive job.
Back in "the day"paying for a lockmaker to do a good job was a bad idea.
CHEEEEP was the order and there were makers that followed that idea and,
as Bill Large said,"Got a handle on their names".I still have 3 or 4 orders for locks
and after that I have to make a decision as to whether to make more or work
on simple little items like the SMR triggers.The Chambers locks appear to have
a decent level of quality control and their Late Ketland is a favorite and I have
recommended it often.L&R has tried to upgrade their locks and the frizzens
made of 52-100 and getting rid of cast mainsprings is proof.The internals and
dimensions are another thing altogether and may require expensive retooling
to accomplish.As I have said in earlier posts,L&R from the first was plagued by
lack of quality control from foundries and they got the static from dissatisfied
customers. I have used their current external parts of the Manton-Ashmore-Egg
with NO problems reported.I hope they can get the bugs killed off and upgrade the
dimensions on moving parts soon.
Lest I forget,Taylor has made a nice lock out of that one and the fine detailing shows.
Bob Roller
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 05:24:58 PM by Bob Roller »

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Lock work
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2018, 09:05:06 PM »
There are three issues with L & R's sear spring/sear relationship.

1) The spring, as formed, may be the correct length, but when they come installed in a lock, it is evident that a ham-fisted individual has taken the working tip to a belt grinder and removed too much of the length.  It is also ground at the wrong angle.

2)  the spring is bent so that the lower leg lays almost flat on the top of the sear, preventing it from functioning properly.

3)  the lower leg of the spring is far too thick/strong, and needs to be tapered and thinned.

It might be possible to buy stock springs from L & R that are not ground short.  That would be a big step forward.

The bearing surfaces mentioned earlier.  On this particular lock, the tumbler's large axle was rough and only required polishing to give a satisfactory action in the plate's hole.  If you encounter one where the tumbler is sloppy, turn the axle to true it up, and bush the hole in the plate.

Here's a series of images I took to illustrate what I talked about above.  Final note:  the sear, as cast, has a radius behind the screw bolster that benefits from being filed sharp as in the picture.














hughes mother to son analysis
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline runastav

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Re: Lock work
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2018, 10:07:28 PM »
Very Nice Taylor! Will you engrave the Lock as beautiful as you did With mine?
Runar


Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Lock work
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2018, 12:54:35 AM »
I surely will!  Nice photo Runar!!
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline L. Akers

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Re: Lock work
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2018, 07:12:42 PM »
Nice work. Looks great. I have a question. I have had an issue with some L&R locks having the holes for the tumbler in the lock plate and in the bridle being as cast as well as the  tumbler itself. Some locks are a loose enough fit that they rattle before you put on the springs. Any suggestions on how to fix this? I have bushed them and turned the tumbler in a lathe to smooth and polish those surfaces but that takes longer probably than building from scratch. Ideas?

In addition to all the things Taylor has said, I improve the fit of the bridle.  If after bushing the lockplate axle hole (if necessary)  there is lateral play in the tumbler, carefully remove materiel from the bridle bolster ( it MUST remain flat and parallel) where it mates with the lockplate until the tumbler is still free to turn but the lateral movement is eliminated.  If the tumbler bridal axle is sloppy in its hole, I reduce the axle to 1/8" dia., open the hole in the bridle to .185 and press in a piece of 3/16 brass rod and drill and ream to fit the axle.  I file the flats of the tumbler axle that the hammer/cock fits on to be flush with the outer surface of the lockplate and fit the hammer to be just off the surface of the plate.

If you follow all Taylor's excellent instructions plus what I have suggested, you will have an efficient, slick working lock that comes to full bent with a smooth, oily snick, snick.  Taylor would agree, I believe, that there is a level of satisfaction and pride to start with a sows ear and be able to turn it into a silk purse.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Lock work
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2018, 12:31:54 AM »
Mr. Akers is correct.  Though I do not remove the entire axle square right up against the plate, but leave a shallow bearing are which prevents squeezing the hammer right down to the plate.

I have a couple of Bob Rollers locks and they are my measure of what a lock should function like.  I have an original Ketland that is just as smooth. 
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.