Author Topic: Flash hole liner  (Read 5106 times)

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Flash hole liner
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2019, 04:10:21 PM »
Does anyone use beryllium copper liners ?   I was using them on a bullet rifle and they seemed to last longer than the SS liners

Offline bgf

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Re: Flash hole liner
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2019, 12:09:49 AM »
Some of the .451 shooters I have dealt with found platinum liners.  They will outlast any other metal by a wide margin.
The thing about how fast a vent liner erodes has to do with which brand/type of black powder you are shooting.  What is the grain size and how big of a charge are you using.  The gas temperature during the powder burn will determine how fast the liner vent erodes and grows larger.  A rifle type black powder can produce a maximum of about 1800 degrees on the surfaces of the burning grains.  A very fast and hot sporting type powder is able to produce a combustion temperature up around 2200 degrees.  That will  have a lot to do with how fast the vent liner hole is enlarged due to the heated gases and their scouring action.  Why stainless steel vent liners generally outlast those made with softer steels.  You see these platinum vents commonly used in good European flintlock guns.  They used some very fast and very hot burning powders in those guns.

Bill K.

The ones I use are stainless, as I'm sure you know, just for clarity.  They tend to enlarge in the slot first, so the hole is oblong, though I try to change them in my chunk guns long before it's visually obvious.  I think the heavy charges and tight patching blows the hole out faster, but not like a bullet gun.  Smaller calibers wear the hole faster as well, presumably due to higher pressure?

I know people using platinum nipples, also people who change stainless ones every match (it comes out cheaper sometimes).  I would try a platinum liner or a beryllium copper liner if I could find a good source to know what I'm getting, but I'd he reluctant to give up the screw slot or some other convenient removal design :)!  I'd be embarrassing to state how often a new touch hole liner has been installed on my chunk guns.  Cost is about the same as a flint (these days) and it has never hurt a string, at least.

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: Flash hole liner
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2019, 12:58:41 AM »
Some of the .451 shooters I have dealt with found platinum liners.  They will outlast any other metal by a wide margin.
The thing about how fast a vent liner erodes has to do with which brand/type of black powder you are shooting.  What is the grain size and how big of a charge are you using.  The gas temperature during the powder burn will determine how fast the liner vent erodes and grows larger.  A rifle type black powder can produce a maximum of about 1800 degrees on the surfaces of the burning grains.  A very fast and hot sporting type powder is able to produce a combustion temperature up around 2200 degrees.  That will  have a lot to do with how fast the vent liner hole is enlarged due to the heated gases and their scouring action.  Why stainless steel vent liners generally outlast those made with softer steels.  You see these platinum vents commonly used in good European flintlock guns.  They used some very fast and very hot burning powders in those guns.

Bill K.

The ones I use are stainless, as I'm sure you know, just for clarity.  They tend to enlarge in the slot first, so the hole is oblong, though I try to change them in my chunk guns long before it's visually obvious.  I think the heavy charges and tight patching blows the hole out faster, but not like a bullet gun.  Smaller calibers wear the hole faster as well, presumably due to higher pressure?

I know people using platinum nipples, also people who change stainless ones every match (it comes out cheaper sometimes).  I would try a platinum liner or a beryllium copper liner if I could find a good source to know what I'm getting, but I'd he reluctant to give up the screw slot or some other convenient removal design :)!  I'd be embarrassing to state how often a new touch hole liner has been installed on my chunk guns.  Cost is about the same as a flint (these days) and it has never hurt a string, at least.

When you had first posted about beryllium copper liners it got me thinking.  I remember seeing some at Dixon's back in the 1980s and then saw nothing more of them.  In my flintlock test rifle I switched to stainless steel vent liners after shooting some good size charges of Swiss 3F in my .45 caliber flinter.  I was amazed at how fast the very fast hot burning Swiss could enlarge the vent.  Then I remembered reading about the English and their use of platinum liners.  And that choice of metal came out of powder testing papers of Noble and Abel.  They were looking at the maximum combustion temperature of different powders using strips of pure metals to see which ones melted and which did not.  Years ago I dealt with some shooters using .451 Enfields in competition.  They were wearing out nipples in short order.  Then somebody started supplying platinum plated nipples that last a good deal longer.

Bill K.

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Flash hole liner
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2019, 03:27:20 AM »
Haven't found any beryllium copper liners for a long while, and after reading up on the toxicity of the stuff, that could very well be the reason why ! :o  Very, very bad for you !!

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Flash hole liner
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2019, 04:17:21 AM »
Haven't found any beryllium copper liners for a long while, and after reading up on the toxicity of the stuff, that could very well be the reason why ! :o  Very, very bad for you !!

It is much like lead in that respect.   I would not grind it or machine it and huff the fumes.  I would not melt some with an oxy-acetylene torch in a closed room.   As a piece of metal for use in a mechanism it poses no threat.  Ball point pen springs are made of it, for instance.  The the most basic common sense safety practices is all you need. 

It appears Ampco alloys, percussion nipples, probably contain some beryllium.

https://www.ampcometal.com/products/high-copper-alloy/ampcoloy-83-extruded/

I would speculate that it is like lead in brass plumbing alloys.  There is no lead released into the water. It was banned anyway causing the quality of brass in fixtures to decline.