Load for a Hoyt bored .58 cal, PRB twist

[haddockkl]

I had a T/C Renegade bored to .58cal by Boby Hoyt with round bottom rifling and a PRB twist. Took it out today for the first time with some .570 hornady balls, some .012 flannel and loading 80gns of FFG powder. Ionly shot about a dozen rounds but was getting about 6in groups at 50yds.

Firstly I never needed a ball starter, and at no point did it fowel enough (during my admittedly abreviated session) to need a swabbing, so I suspect a .575  ball would be a good start, but I'm wondering if I was going too light with my powder charge?

[Sharpsman]

Depending upon the alloy of the ball with that load it was probably just sliding down the bore instead of the exterior of the ball being upset into the lands so as to create spin! Honk that sucker up with at least 100 grs 2F and use at least a .018" thick patch of pillow ticking!

You can thank me later!

[rich pierce]

Do you know the twist?  I’d expect to use at least a 0.018” patch with that ball.  What do recovered patches look like?

[haddockkl]

I just asked for a round ball twist so probably in the neighborhood of 1-66 or 1-70? Recovered parches were sound, no holes. I was wishing I'd had something thicker, should have doubled my ticking up and tried.

[Mauser06]

When I talked to Mr. Hoyt, it was my understanding that gain twist rifling is all he does now unless otherwise asked for....not sure about rebores.  Maybe I misunderstood.  But I never heard of gain twist...so he explained it to me and made mention that it's his standard. 


I have one of his barrels also in 58cal.  It's gain twist.  Still building the rifle though.   

[haddockkl]

Mine very well could be, when it came back it just indicated it now had a .58 bore and twist for round balls. I'll expirament further with loads soon enough, Mr Hoyt's work looks excellent,  I'll find some combination it likes I'm sure.

[Herb]

See my thread above about comparison powders.  I have a Hoyt rebored .58 the last post.

[Fyrstyk]

I had Bobby re-bore a Browning Mountain Rifle to .58 with a round ball 1:66" twist.  I only use this gun for hunting, so my load is somewhat stiff.  I use 120grains of 2f with a .575 cast ball with .015 mink oil lubed patch.  It loads "snuggly", and I can get off 3 shots before swabbing is required.  Never had to take more than one shot when used for hunting.  Once you work up to a load that gives you the accuracy your require, you should be more than satisfied.  My load gives me 1.5" groups at 50 yards from the bench.  Off hand I can do about 3".  At 75 yards, which is my personal limit for shooting at game with iron sights, the gun shoots about 3.5" from the bench.

[shifty]

I had a T/C Renegade bored to .58cal by Boby Hoyt with round bottom rifling and a PRB twist. Took it out today for the first time with some .570 hornady balls, some .012 flannel and loading 80gns of FFG powder. Ionly shot about a dozen rounds but was getting about 6in groups at 50yds.

Firstly I never needed a ball starter, and at no point did it fowel enough (during my admittedly abreviated session) to need a swabbing, so I suspect a .575  ball would be a good start, but I'm wondering if I was going too light with my powder charge?

 
     Have you checked yourself to see what the  twist is?

[Mike Brooks]

I have two Hoyt barrels on hand. One with a 1 in 56 and one with a 1 in 34 twist. I requested both, but you can't assume anything about twist with Bob unless you actually SPECIFY.

[haddockkl]

Thanks Herb, that helps a great deal. Looks like you spent a lot more time collecting useful data than I have the instrumentation/ time to do.

I had Bobby re-bore a Browning Mountain Rifle to .58 with a round ball 1:66" twist.  I only use this gun for hunting, so my load is somewhat stiff.  I use 120grains of 2f with a .575 cast ball with .015 mink oil lubed patch.  It loads "snuggly", and I can get off 3 shots before swabbing is required.  Never had to take more than one shot when used for hunting.  Once you work up to a load that gives you the accuracy your require, you should be more than satisfied.  My load gives me 1.5" groups at 50 yards from the bench.  Off hand I can do about 3".  At 75 yards, which is my personal limit for shooting at game with iron sights, the gun shoots about 3.5" from the bench.

[Standing Bear]

FLANNEL patching material?  That’s for cleaning not very substantial to patch a ball with. Did you recover any?

[Daryl]

Ticking, denim, pocket drill, linen, lighter canvases.  Those are shooting patch materials.

I have used denim from .O19" to .034" thick with the best effect.
Linens and pocket drill thick enough to be used without having to wipe the bore while shooting, are hard to find.
Ticking  ie: heavy ticking running .021" to .0235" thick make excellent shooting patches.
The most accurate loads I have developed use 10, 12 and 14oz. denims.  In the U. States, Joanne's Fabrics Carrie's denims in ounce weights.
I measure 8oz. Denim at .018", 10oz. at .022", 12oz. at .030" and 12oz. at .034".
These 2 heavier denims shoot best my .69, having .012" deep rifling  with the .682" pure lead ball, and with a hardened ball of .677" using the thicker patch.

Having at ANY time, to wipe during shooting 5 or even 10 shot groups, shows your bore condition is changing, shot to shot. If this is happening, pressure and velocity is also changing shot to shot, therefore you are not getting the accuracy your gun is capable of.
We shoot for an entire day without having to wipe at any time. That may be 30 shots  or 100. The bore's condition does not change.

[haddockkl]

I did observe a few on the ground and looked one over closely, no holes, just blackened.

FLANNEL patching material?  That’s for cleaning not very substantial to patch a ball with. Did you recover any?

[Daryl]

Blackened is from low pressure and no seal.
Need better material, meaning thickness and toughness.

[Bigmon]

Just harvested a deer with 58 cal PRB in a barrel designed for shooting 510 gr civil war minie balls.  Has three each equal lands and grooves.  Used 60 Gr FFG as that's what they used in the war, but patched the RB with 018 ticking.  Shoots great out to 65 yds, didn't try it any farther as I cant see the sights any better.
The skinned deer looks like it was hit with a train.  I really always keep my loads as light as I can and have never hd any trouble.
Hope that helps

[Daryl]

Bigmon, I had one of those guns about 3 1/2 decades ago.
I shot mine to 100yards using a
575" round ball and .020" denim patch. My .58 mil
 Gun  shot best with
120gr. GOEX and C&H 2F powders. This gun almost matched my .58 Large bl'd Hawken for accuracy, same powders, however it did that with 20gr. Less powder.
The Hawken needed 140gr. while the Zouave did it with 120gr. Both easily stayed under 3"at 100yards.

[Bigmon]

Hi Dayrl,
I use a 562 RD and the 018 patch is actually too titefor field loading with a wood RR unless real careful.  I am gonna go with some 010 patching and see how that works.
But you are actually usung double the powder amount I use.  And as far as I been shooting the gun, 60 yards, it really does well.
This barrel has three each lands and grooves all of equal width. I was told it is a North South Skirmish barrel made new to use in an original Springfield musket for their competition?
So I used it and built a flintlock rifle from it so I could shoot those big minie balls in it.  But they kick so hard I just use the RB's and they shoot fine.  The minie balls shoot about the same.
Thanks for the info., have a great new year

[457121]

I had a T/C Renegade bored to .58cal by Boby Hoyt with round bottom rifling and a PRB twist. Took it out today for the first time with some .570 hornady balls, some .012 flannel and loading 80gns of FFG powder. Ionly shot about a dozen rounds but was getting about 6in groups at 50yds.

Firstly I never needed a ball starter, and at no point did it fowel enough (during my admittedly abreviated session) to need a swabbing, so I suspect a .575  ball would be a good start, but I'm wondering if I was going too light with my powder charge?

I also have a Renegade bored to .58 by B. Hoyt. I don't know what twist exactly but it's slow. I use a .575" ball with .018" pillow ticking patch and 100gr. of Olde Eynsford 1.5 F powder. Before OE powder came out I used to shoot it at 100gr. with Goex red can 3Fg.

[B.Habermehl]

Sounds to me that you need a stronger thicker patch, your load uses a thin weak patch combo. Try a thicker more durable patch. At least .020 thick, like heavy denim. With your round ball choice. I use .020 thick pillow ticking with the sameb ball diameter you use. With 80 grains fffg black powder. Deer can’t stand it. They run four or five leaps an done, if the boiler room is hit. BJH

[Daryl]

I was told it is a North South Skirmish barrel made new to use in an original Springfield musket for their competition?

Lyman, seems to me did  or rather printed an article about those replacement barrels in their second BP Handbook, ba k in the late 70's, IIRC  I am currently a long way from my library.
I thought, though, those bls. had 5 grooves and 48" twists.
From this  I gather whenever made the barrels that Lyman's book spoke of, may have been of different mgr. of N/S replacement barrels than yours. Lyman best noted accuracy came from the thick-skirt #575611 mould they purposely made for heavy loads. The loads used in those N/S bls. Though were around 50gr. -again, from memory of that article. I used their thinking to modify some moulds and ended up with a 675gr. Minnie first my own .58 S. Hawken 66" twist, that Taylor built me.  It shot that 675gr. Minnie best with 165gr. 2F GOEX, for 1,375fps. The recoil with that hooked butt plate was a bit too much.

[Anonymous]

Bobby has rebored two Renegade barrels for me for 58 cal patched round ball, one each, flint and cap. His suggestion was 1-60 radius bottom when I asked for his recommendation.  Makes for a light, short package.  Typically load 80 to 100 grains of Swiss fff (fun really starts to disappear at 120 grains). Holds accuracy under 4” at 100 yards when using thick denim patch that measures .016” under heavy compression, well over .020” without.  Use a 7-1 dry lube when hunting. It loads tight.