Author Topic: Barrel Bending  (Read 7561 times)

Offline sqrldog

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2018, 09:38:29 PM »
Believe it or not there are bent barrels. Three of us shot the same rifle it shot 6" left for all of us from  a bench rest. After a little  bending it shot center and a little low for all of us with the sights back in the center of the barrel. Yes I know there can be more than one factor causing a consistantly group to be off to one side or high. But barrels can be bent or off center and need correction.  Tim

Offline Mr. Bubbles

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2018, 11:35:47 PM »
The barrel is an A-weight FCI Charles Burton 48" 38 cal.

It's definitely the barrel and not me.  I have 50 years of competitive 3-P experience in smallbore and air rifle, and this is my 5th build.  First gun I've run in to like this.  Sort of disappointing after spending 2 years doing the build to be perfectly honest.

The crowning thing sounds like an interesting approach.  But, if it's the crownn, wouldn't your L-R POI be affected by the size loads you shoot, as gas blow-by varies withthe charge?  I shot 30, 40, 50, and 60 grain 5-shot groups yesterday  ald the up / down varied, but not the left / right deflection.

Offline sqrldog

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2019, 12:13:51 AM »
It is likely the barrel go bent slightly in the shipping process as Charlie Burton actually shoots his barrels prior to shipping them. The smaller diameter barrels can be deflected the smallest amount  by a stock that has moved due to shrinking  or swelling. If you are shooting the rifle off of a bench and it shoots left then check to see if it is a stock problem, if not bend the barrel or send it back to Mr. Burton for his evalution. Tim

Offline Mr. Bubbles

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2019, 12:37:02 AM »
I had thought about deflection due to stock warpage too, but that's just not the case. 
I don't have enough wood there to make that kind of a difference, and the barrel channel is pretty straight.

Could be the answer is to call him and ask him as you suggest.  I know he had a heck of a time making this barrel, so maybe he got rushed.  1st one got lost in the mail, 2nd one twisted up on him in his lathe, and this was the 3rd run at it.  It took him a full 2 years to deliver it from the time of the initial order.

Offline Charlie B

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2019, 10:11:38 PM »
I guess I need to spend more time on ALR, didn't see this until this morning and sent customer an email asking him to send me the barrel, he hadn't contacted me about his issue before posting here.
He is 100% correct this barrel order was a challenge but even with having to build it three times it wasn't "rushed".
I also as someone else said shot barrel for group before shipping so not sure what happened, it is as stated  a light A weight .38 and is flexible.
I have offered my help so not sure what else to do.
I very much hope the person at UPS that took the first barrel is having equal problems!!
Charlie

Offline Daryl

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2019, 06:21:27 AM »
I once coned a barrel in an attempt to make it shoot straight--to my surprise it worked!

One of the newer SxS gun makers, Sabatti, seems to me, started off regulating their Double rifles by crooked crowning in an effort to keep prices down.
This did not last long due to misgruntled buyers. They now regulate their rifles by trial and error the "old" way.
Perfect crowns are needed to aid perfectly straight barrels shoot centre. Sometimes, even that fails and shots drift a bit. Up/down or to one side or the other by a bit.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Mr. Bubbles

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2019, 09:08:19 PM »
I heard from Charles via e-mail this morning.  Sent him a note back.  Great to know what a stand-up guy he is. I've had this barrel since 2016, but as you guys know, it's a LONG time and LOTS of hours from the time a barrel arrives, and it's mounted in wood ready for shooting.   I tried a few of the tricks (not the crowning thing though) mentioned in this thread  and am going to shoot it again this weekend to see where it prints, and send it back to him with a target (complete with load and range information)  if it's not getting close to where the sights would be centered to a reasonably close to center spot.  All part of the process of doing a build and getting it working isn't it?

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2019, 02:07:20 AM »
I heard from Charles via e-mail this morning.  Sent him a note back.  Great to know what a stand-up guy he is. I've had this barrel since 2016, but as you guys know, it's a LONG time and LOTS of hours from the time a barrel arrives, and it's mounted in wood ready for shooting.   I tried a few of the tricks (not the crowning thing though) mentioned in this thread  and am going to shoot it again this weekend to see where it prints, and send it back to him with a target (complete with load and range information)  if it's not getting close to where the sights would be centered to a reasonably close to center spot.  All part of the process of doing a build and getting it working isn't it?
It could be worse. A few years ago I got a tube with three of my Carolina barrels in it from Hoyt. All bent courtesy of USPS. I called Bob and asked him how to proceed. He said either I could pay shipping and have him straighten them or I could straighten them myself as we both use the same methods. I elected to straighten them my self. I actually had to shoot those three guns to zero them in, wasn't a big deal, got one of them right with one bend, the other two took two  trys.
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Offline redheart

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2019, 04:33:59 AM »
Wow Mike'
Have you considered offering a barrel bending service? ;)

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2019, 04:54:28 AM »

 Just because a barrel shoots off doesn't mean it is bent. It could be the crown.

This is what I was wondering. Dr. Mann and Harry Pope altered muzzle crown angles and found it changed the point of impact.

It's worth inspecting your crown.
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2019, 04:47:42 PM »

 Just because a barrel shoots off doesn't mean it is bent. It could be the crown.

This is what I was wondering. Dr. Mann and Harry Pope altered muzzle crown angles and found it changed the point of impact.

It's worth inspecting your crown.
I polish my crown every day. Being the King of my domain appearances are important. ;)
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2019, 05:59:12 PM »
LOL!  MIke.  :-)

Worst I straightened was a W 44-40 carbine with an 'S' bend.


Offline Waksupi

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2019, 12:03:01 AM »
The first thing to do, is unbreech the barrel. Looking through it, you should see light rings the length of the barrel. They will show you where they are bent, even if only a couple thousandths.  If you aren't familiar with looking at the light rings, look through a modern shotgun, they are more easily seen, and will show what you are looking for. A rifled barrel has the same light rings, but are a bit more difficult for an amatuer to read due to the lands and grooves. I was barrel inspector for three major modern rifle companies, and some who worked there never could see them.
Once I establish where a bend is when building at home, I have a designated tree I whack them on until everything looks right.
When starting a new build, I straighten a barrel before doing anything else.
Ric Carter
Somers, Montana

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2019, 01:08:21 AM »
I think we should chip in and buy Mike a new tube of Simichrome for keeping his crown polished.
Craig Wilcox
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Offline Scota4570

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2022, 10:29:51 PM »
I looked this old thread up  because I have a barrel that shoots about 6" left with the sights centered.  It takes about 1/8" total sight offset to sight it in. I decided to fix this one myself.  The side flats at the waist were about .008" different when measure on the pictured fixture.  More for the length of the barrel as measured on a granite slab.  The difference was consistent with how it shot.  I can not bring myself to beat the barrel on a stump.  I used the lash up pictured to do it in a more controlled way.  It was easy but unnerving.  The amount of deflection needed to bend the barrel is significant.  By watching on the dial indicator I was able to sneak up on the right amount.  The side flats now measure equal.  Hopefully this is useful t someone. 





Offline ScottH

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2022, 01:30:36 AM »
Interesting. Let us know how it shoots when you get a chance to test it again.

Offline James Wilson Everett

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2022, 02:38:20 PM »
Guys,

Here is a detailed tutorial on this subject.

Jim

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=19603.msg185221#msg185221

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2022, 03:36:29 PM »

 Just because a barrel shoots off doesn't mean it is bent. It could be the crown.

This is what I was wondering. Dr. Mann and Harry Pope altered muzzle crown angles and found it changed the point of impact.

It's worth inspecting your crown.

After the first shot I look at the star pattern on the muzzle and if it looks OK then I will test for accuracy.Many years ago Bill Large took a barrel out of a rifle on the primitive range at Friendship and whacked it across a log and straightened it.An irregular crown or chamfer will guarantee frustration and that should be the first thing looked at.The last in of the barrel will tell the story and no amount of bending will cure a bad muzzle.
Bob Roller

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2022, 06:49:39 PM »
True about crowns. 

This one was crowned in a lathe dial indicated off the bore with a fitted spud. 

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2022, 07:12:42 PM »
Removing a false muzzle seldom will reveal a crown.As soon as possible I will post a picture of my portable muzzle dresser I have used with good results.I used it on a 45 caliber barrel that had an irregular star burst pattern and it worked really well. It will not help a bent barrel..
The rifle I used this on was a 451 long range type and with this type of shooting the base of the bullet must be as near perfect as possible
and I checked these using a precision ground  gauge block and stood the bullet on it and the checked with a precision master square set next to the bullet.
Bob Roller

Birddog6

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2022, 04:48:05 AM »
This was made by Norton Gatz, gunmaker & master machinist from Louisville, KY.

I have used it twice & it does a nice job & you can measure first & regulate how much
bend you put in it.  I put a small piece of brass between the screw & barrel as not to
score the barrel.







Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2022, 06:11:21 AM »
I used this method. It worked like a charm!! ;D



Birddog6

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2022, 06:24:35 AM »
About 30 yrs ago I think it was Mike that told me to whop it real good over a tractor tire.
It worked 🤣

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2022, 03:48:09 PM »
I used this method. It worked like a charm!! ;D


Atta boy! Good ol' Brooks College of knowledge. ;)
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Barrel Bending
« Reply #49 on: May 18, 2022, 01:07:34 AM »
what ever happened to the OP Mr bubbles?
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?