Jug Choke

[mossyhorn]

I have a 20 gauge flintlock that shoots round ball great to 50 yds but after trying numerous different loads the patterns are still sparse to fifty feet and less. I am considering having the barrel jug choked. The problem is the lugs and front sight being in place I am having trouble finding anyone that will jug choke the barrel in this condition. Please give me some advice and/or recommendations. I don't know enough about removing and re-soldering the lugs and sight to do this and accurately getting them back in the same place. I would like to get good enough patterns at 25 to 30 yds for small game and turkeys. Thanks for any advice.

[HelmutKutz]

Try using a paper sleeve because if bore is not polished enough the bore friction will induce rotation resulting in pattern degradation.

[thelongrifle]

Try doing it yourself with a small cylinder hone. It will take a while but it is doable. Then you can do it in stages till you get the pattern you like. There was a post on this forum a while back about this.

[mossyhorn]

I've tried the sleeves and have considered trying it myself but really  am looking to find out if someone out there can recommend someone to do it as I would hate to damage the barrel beyond use. Looking for suggestions please!

[Eric Krewson]

You could call Danny Caywood and see if he will do it with the sights in place.

[Hungry Horse]

 In my opinion jug choking only atracts those that either aren’t willing to put in the time it takes to make a smoothbore perform to its limits, or are asking too much of a muzzleloading smoothbore to start with. Bottom line is they won’t give the performance of a modern shotgun in range, or velocity, even if you jug choke it.

  Hungry Horse

[Mike Brooks]

Work with your shot pattern more. There are some tricks that help. Felt Blanket material for a cushion wad. Larger plated shot. More shot/less powder.   1 3/8  oz isn't too much shot as long as you use enough powder to get it moving, but I'd want a well built gun before I started loading real heavy. I used 1 1/4 shot loads for hunting. My cylinder 20's & 28's  shot great at 30yards. How long is your barrel?

[Mike Brooks]

In my opinion jug choking only atracts those that either aren’t willing to put in the time it takes to make a smoothbore perform to its limits, or are asking too much of a muzzleloading smoothbore to start with. Bottom line is they won’t give the performance of a modern shotgun in range, or velocity, even if you jug choke it.

  Hungry Horse

With a properly  jugged  muzzleloader you can smoke modern gun performance. You are not limited by cartridge capacity. Also, BP shoots softer and keeps your shot together better, smokeless creates quite a shock at ignition. With big bores you can kill past 50 yards. Anybody that says otherwise has no experience with a properly cut jug.

[mossyhorn]

The gun is a Michael Davis 38" barrel. I called one fellow that Mike recommended but he would not do the choke with the sights and lugs on the barrel.

[HelmutKutz]

In my opinion jug choking only atracts those that either aren’t willing to put in the time it takes to make a smoothbore perform to its limits, or are asking too much of a muzzleloading smoothbore to start with. Bottom line is they won’t give the performance of a modern shotgun in range, or velocity, even if you jug choke it.

  Hungry Horse

With a properly  jugged  muzzleloader you can smoke modern gun performance. You are not limited by cartridge capacity. Also, BP shoots softer and keeps your shot together better, smokeless creates quite a shock at ignition. With big bores you can kill past 50 yards. Anybody that says otherwise has no experience with a properly cut jug.

Mr. Brooks is correct, though the bore size matters less than the proper load building. My 19 and 16 bores produce excellent kills at 50m and beyond given the proper game to load match.
HK

[Dave Marsh]

Try Danny Caywood.  If I am remembering correctly I sent him my barrel with sights and lugs on and it came back that way.  I know that I did not remove and replace them.  He properly jug chokes and my 20 gauge killed a turkey last year at 40 yards.  Flopped him right over dead.  Practice and practice more.   

Dave

[galudwig]

I second Danny Caywood. I had him jug a barrel of mine "full" for turkey hunting. Reasonable price and pretty quick turnaround. Here is a link to jug choking information from his website:

http://www.caywoodguns.com/jug-choking.html

Based on what I read ("remove barrel from gunstock; don't ship whole gun"), it appears he can do the job with sights and lugs just as Strong bear said. Also, you might check to see the make of your barrel. My Davis 16 ga. smoothie has a Rice barrel. I mention this because Rice now offers jug chokes in their barrels. Not sure if they will do it on a barrel that is already on a gun, but its worth a phone call.

[mossyhorn]

Thanks for the great responses. I'll work on each of the suggestions until I get it right.

[Mauser06]

I'd love to see some of these 40 and 50 yard patterns....and the details of the load. 


Ive fired somewhere around 20 different patterns and can't seem to get my jug choked gun to do much.   

[Mike Brooks]

I'd love to see some of these 40 and 50 yard patterns....and the details of the load. 


Ive fired somewhere around 20 different patterns and can't seem to get my jug choked gun to do much.

Who did the choke? There's a lot more to it than creating a big spot inside the barrel.

Once  properly jugged I find they'll shoot about anything you put down it well, they aren't very particular.

[wattlebuster]

Danny Caywood choked my 12 ga for turkey hunting. Mike is right an knows what he is talking about. I shoot big shot #4s an #2s in mine an its deadly medicine for a longbeards skull. I am also an advocate for 1F in big bore smoothbores. Its amazing how it helps those patterns

[Mauser06]

Mine was done by Danny as well.  It's a 20. 


I sent it to him as a Colerain turkey choke barrel.  So I kinda wonder if that isn't the culprit.   Feels like the muzzle is a little bit looser than the rest of the bore below the choke. 

I don't judge the judge choke against others because I think that's the reason it doesn't do well....but when I ask for pics of patterns at 30-40-50yds or pellet counts from 10" circles at those ranges, I have yet to see it. But lots of guys say they are deadly at 40-50yds etc.  Just wonder if I don't have higher standards.   

[wattlebuster]

I can do ya a 20 30 an 40. I dont shoot longbeards at 50 even if a gun will do it. Your just asking for trouble This is with about 80 percent 4s with a few 2s mixed in. I pulled off just a tad on the 30 but it should still give you an idea about pattern. I hope this helps ya

[Daryl]

I take from the stats, you are using a 110gr. Powder Measure full of shot  mixed "2 & 4's.

[Mike Brooks]

That 40 yard is very nice. I patterned a customers 20 bore @ 25 yards that had a jug in it. I put ALL of the 1 1/4OZ of 7 1/2 shot in an 18" circle.

[mossyhorn]

I've usually shot 60-70 grs of 2F with 1 1/8  to 1 1/4 oz. of 4 or 6 shot and varied the over powder wads with with varied thickness cardboard and under shot fiber wads of 1/2inch with thin overshot card. I've tried several combos of this mix but my patterns are still sparse at 40-50 feet. No sign of wad blow through on paper. ///definitely would not put enough pellets into a turkey or squirrel at 25 to 30 yds.

[mossyhorn]

Mike I would be very happy with a pattern in my 20 anywhere close to that. What should I expect without jug choking at 25 yds % of pellets in a 24 inch circle?

[Mike Brooks]

I've usually shot 60-70 grs of 2F with 1 1/8  to 1 1/4 oz. of 4 or 6 shot and varied the over powder wads with with varied thickness cardboard and under shot fiber wads of 1/2inch with thin overshot card. I've tried several combos of this mix but my patterns are still sparse at 40-50 feet. No sign of wad blow through on paper. ///definitely would not put enough pellets into a turkey or squirrel at 25 to 30 yds.

I have rarely had a cylinder bored gun that will shoot 1/2" fiber wads. Switch to blanket felt and that should fix you up. A lot of guys use no cushion wads at all in a cylinder bored gun and use all over shot cards for everything and get good results, I like to use felts to carry lube as I shoot a lot of skeet. (or used to in a parallel universe)

[Mike Brooks]

Mike I would be very happy with a pattern in my 20 anywhere close to that. What should I expect without jug choking at 25 yds % of pellets in a 24 inch circle?

Beats me, about ONE MILLION VARIABLES in the way you load that will make a huge difference. I have had 20 bores that you couldn't hit a garbage can lid @ 20 yards as the shot was spread in a huge doughnut around it. 1/2" fiber wads are usually the culprit with dognut patterns. Too much lube on a 1/2 fiber wad will blow a pattern too, makes the wad too heavy and it passes the shot leaving a hole. It takes a lot of fiddling around with cylinder bores to get maximum performance out of them. I think A guy could easily write a book on this subject. (didn't Greener do that?)

[wattlebuster]

Daryl yes that is a powder measure. Mike somebody did write a book on it. V.M.Starr. To get those patterns consistently i load 100 gns of Fg then a lubed 1/8th inch dura felt wad soaked in bear grease. Then on top of that I ram a 1/8th in hard cardboard then the shot an then a thin overshot card. Each an every time I have ever tried one of those 1/2 inch fiber wads it blows the patterns pitifully.