Jug Choke

[wattlebuster]

I should add that when shooting FFg in my gun it did not do as well as with the Fg. Even in just light loads my gun likes the Fg the best. Your mileage could an probably will vary to some degree

[Daryl]

1F should start the shot off more slowly, thus damaging the shot less  thus just in that, improving patterns.
I see what I consider too many holes in the patterns pictured. Yes  the Turkey was "killed" in each target shown - but by moving the target a mere 2 or 3 inches one way or the other, at least the 40 yard turkey would not have been hit in the head or neck.  Pattern evenous is very.important as well, if shot that will not pen. the feathers to create a vital wound is used.
Just a thought.
In loading bp in ctgs I find instant pattern improvement over smokeless.
One might ask WHY?
Is it because of lower MUZZLE pressure perhaps?
This would suggest a faster burning powder like 3F  that was used up and dropping pressure by the time the " load" made it to the muzzle would be better. Since we've heard here that 1F patterns better, perhaps that argument doesn't hold water - or, other variables are at work.
Much testing is required in EACH different gun to get THE best results.
Perhaps those who have achieved good results in at least one of their smooth bores, could present THEIR list  components, either here, or in a separate thread, perhaps entitled Smoothbore Shot Loads.

[mossyhorn]

Good suggestion for a new topic Daryl!

[mossyhorn]

I've usually shot 60-70 grs of 2F with 1 1/8  to 1 1/4 oz. of 4 or 6 shot and varied the over powder wads with with varied thickness cardboard and under shot fiber wads of 1/2inch with thin overshot card. I've tried several combos of this mix but my patterns are still sparse at 40-50 feet. No sign of wad blow through on paper. ///definitely would not put enough pellets into a turkey or squirrel at 25 to 30 yds.

I have rarely had a cylinder bored gun that will shoot 1/2" fiber wads. Switch to blanket felt and that should fix you up. A lot of guys use no cushion wads at all in a cylinder bored gun and use all over shot cards for everything and get good results, I like to use felts to carry lube as I shoot a lot of skeet. (or used to in a parallel universe)

Mike how thick is the blanket felt that you recommend for use as an over powder wad. I guess this is used primarily as a cleaner to swab the bore upon loading with a hard 1/8" wad under the shot charge.

[Mike Brooks]

I'd like to point out if you're taking a poke at a turk at 40 to 50 yards with a lot of jug you better have good rifle style sights on your gun, easy to miss at that distance if you're a little bit off with a good jug. I, contrary to Daryl, think all of those patterns above are pretty good. There are always going to be holes big enough for a miss in your pattern if you move the turkey head around to the ideal spot to score a miss after the shot, same as for shooting clays for trap and skeet, $#*& happens.

 Couple ways to control shot deformation, cushion wad, plated shot and slower powder. I always shot 2ff, I never shot 1f but I'd be willing to give it a whirl in bigger bores. I never used plated shot as I was never hunting turks, don't need it for pheasants over good dogs, I used "magnum" shot, I believe it has antimony in it to make it a bit harder.

 I just got a Colerain 46" 14 bore "French" barrel from TOTW for a customer's club butt fowling gun. Should be a dandy once I get the jug put in.

 Talking about all this shotgunning gets me all excited about building myself a fowling gun. Been a long time since I had one to play with. I have a 47" French trade gun barrel in a piece of walnut that I should get together.

[Mike Brooks]

I've usually shot 60-70 grs of 2F with 1 1/8  to 1 1/4 oz. of 4 or 6 shot and varied the over powder wads with with varied thickness cardboard and under shot fiber wads of 1/2inch with thin overshot card. I've tried several combos of this mix but my patterns are still sparse at 40-50 feet. No sign of wad blow through on paper. ///definitely would not put enough pellets into a turkey or squirrel at 25 to 30 yds.

I have rarely had a cylinder bored gun that will shoot 1/2" fiber wads. Switch to blanket felt and that should fix you up. A lot of guys use no cushion wads at all in a cylinder bored gun and use all over shot cards for everything and get good results, I like to use felts to carry lube as I shoot a lot of skeet. (or used to in a parallel universe)

Mike how thick is the blanket felt that you recommend for use as an over powder wad. I guess this is used primarily as a cleaner to swab the bore upon loading with a hard 1/8" wad under the shot charge.

About as thick as a blanket..... Actually I got my felts from "Mike's quality shotgun  wads" or some such thing. Google it. They were blue and 3/8" to 1/2" thick. I lubed them with a lightish spritz of Ballistol. So, my load for a cylinder bore was powder, 1/8" card, felt, overshot card, shot, overshot card. Sometimes I'd leave out the overshot between the felt and shot. That particular load has worked for every cylinder bored shot gun I have owned. I did have an original flint double 18 bore that would shoot 1/2" fiber cushions, but that was the only "non jugged" gun I could get to shoot fiber cushions. I think in that case the chambered breeches made that possible.


Some guys use several of those white pre lubed 1/8" felts instead of the thicker blanket material. Works, but they are expensive if you're shooting skeet all day.

[wattlebuster]

So far Mike the longbeards aint complained about the patterns. They flopped a little an deep fried up real well

[sqrldog]

I shoot a 10 ga. Flint Fowler that Mike Brooks made for me (big badda boom) I believe he had Lowell Tennyson jug choke it. This is the first shot at 40 yds.  I used 110 gr. Ffg and equal volume of number 5 magnum shot, over powder card, half a fiber wad over shot thin card, shot and thin card. In my 12 ga. I have always used the cork overshot card once sold by Dixie Gun Works. Anyway since I limit my shots to 35 yrds I figured it would  do the job.

[mossyhorn]

I shoot a 10 ga. Flint Fowler that Mike Brooks made for me (big badda boom) I believe he had Lowell Tennyson jug choke it. This is the first shot at 40 yds.  I used 110 gr. Ffg and equal volume of number 5 magnum shot, over powder card, half a fiber wad over shot thin card, shot and thin card. In my 12 ga. I have always used the cork overshot card once sold by Dixie Gun Works. Anyway since I limit my shots to 35 yrds I figured it would  do the job.

That should do the job Tim! I'm only using 60-70 grs of 2F in my twenty but will try more combos and will try Mikes loads as soon as I get some felt wads.
I have learned to broaden my possibilities from this post before I jug choke but will still leave that as a possible option.

[Mike Brooks]

I shoot a 10 ga. Flint Fowler that Mike Brooks made for me (big badda boom) I believe he had Lowell Tennyson jug choke it. This is the first shot at 40 yds.  I used 110 gr. Ffg and equal volume of number 5 magnum shot, over powder card, half a fiber wad over shot thin card, shot and thin card. In my 12 ga. I have always used the cork overshot card once sold by Dixie Gun Works. Anyway since I limit my shots to 35 yrds I figured it would  do the job.

Po' ol Turk. What chu wanna pick on him like dat fo'?

[Mauser06]

I appreciate the pics and info.   


I'd say my 20 shoots "on par" but like Daryl, I'm more picky over what I consider a turkey pattern and adjust my max range accordingly.   





That's a 30yd target with the jug.   





That's a 30yd with the colerain turkey choke before having it bored out and jugged....


BIG difference IMO.   30yds IMO is about the max with the jug. Much more comfortable 25yds and in.  With the colerain pattern, I'd take a 30yd shot and not think twice. 


I played with both chokes a good bunch.   


I liked the colerain turkey choke patterns better I got another barrel and build a gun with it.....though I went with a 38" opposed to the 44".   



Cleaning the turkey choke is a royal pain IMO.   Which was why I disliked it.  After getting blasted in the face with nasty black water I sent it to be jugged. 


Jugged is nice...patterns well enough for me and shooting roundballs is a great bonus.  I've killed a spring gobbler with it and 3 deer now that it's been jugged....

[mossyhorn]

Patterns look good in both pics. Having trouble reading the load info. Looks like 2 oz. shot and 100 grs 3F. Is that a heavy load for a 20 gauge?

[Mauser06]

Turkey patterns I look for a nice overall dense pattern.  80-100 hits in a 10" circle is what I'd consider a max range. 


The jug pattern is 80gr of 2f and 120gr by volume of #6 nickel plated.

The colerain is 100gr of 3f and 110gr of buffered nickel 6s.

The other scribbles are wads and/or overshot cards.  2 OS is code for 2 over shot cards..


I was consistently doing 130+ in a 10" circle with the colerain turkey choke.  The jug was 85ish.   Both at 30yds.   40-50+ pellets difference is a meaningful difference in my eyes. 

[Daryl]

That's a lot of pellets in the "core".
How closely they shoot to the point of aim, the better, of
Çourse  less bending, if necessary..

[galudwig]

Hi Mauser,

Im' pretty impressed with your patterns. Just looking for clarification on that pre-jug Colerain load. I get the 2OS over the powder and over the shot. Can you clarify the spec for the "felt" and what did yo use for a buffer? Just looking for potential loads for my own Colerain TC barrel. I also picked up a 36" Colerain full octagon barrel that is Turkey Choked (factory marked) for a future build.  First and only time I ever saw one of those. Thanks!

[Mauser06]

The felt is 1/16" I believe. I bought the thinnest I could find with the idea of stacking them to see how it responded.  I've actually fired a couple patterns "better" than that...same sorta load. Just had that pic handy.  I believe those wads were lubed with bear grease or something.   

The buffer is actually shotshell buffer....it's sort of a pain...but seemed to make a difference.  I load my measurer with shot then filter in buffer till no more will settle into the shot column. When hunting I carry premeasured powder charges in rubber tubes and then containers with shot/buffer. 


Oh...good nickel plated shot is important IMO.  It doesn't deform like plain lead shot which helps with uniform patterns and also aids in penetration which IMO is important because the load is heavy and the velocity probably isn't crazy..for my turkey loads I try to keep that in mind ..they aren't hard to kill.. it you gotta break the spine and get pellets into the skull. 


I fired a lot of patterns with various components.   Variations of that load we're always the best and most consistent.


Looking forward to patterning the new gun.  Lots of guys seem to wanna skip that part...to me, that's the fun of it. 

I built a target frame to fit "buiders paper" and buy it by the pool at Lowe's or home Depot.  You want a big sheet to read patterns and see what it's actually doing.   

And my guns both have rear sights on them.  I like mine to print with the center of the pattern  hitting right at my point of am. On a turkey, I aim for the center of the neck..sends half the pattern into his head and the lower half into his neck.  Squirrels are a blast with those patterns too. 

I'm no expert.  Someone will chime in about me loading so heavy....but, I've never seen better patterns posted. 

[galudwig]

Thanks for the info. I'm new BP smoothbores and shot, so real experiences with the Colerain barrel like yours are helpful. I've been playing around with loads for my (non-jugged) 16 ga. smoothie. I'm sure there is a turkey load in there somewhere (someday), but right now I'm basically using it to learn and to do some small game hunting. I've been using the lubed fiber wads, but at 25 yards I saw the blown patterns like other people have talked about when using them. At that distance, most of the wads hit the target as well. I tried splitting the wads in half, but it didn't seem to help.  When I split them into thirds though, I saw an improvement. I'd find the fiber wad about 10-12 yards from the muzzle. I don't know how much "cushion" was left in that thin of a wad, but I seemed to retain the benefit of smoother loading that the lube provided.

I've always believed that knowing how your shotgun patterns to be an important part of turkey hunting (or any hunting for that matter). I enjoy chasing that "perfect" pattern too, so I've done a lot of patterning over the years. Many years ago, my sister-in-law gave me the end roll of blank newspaper print. It is a perfect size for patterning and should last me for many more years! Thanks again!

[Daryl]

I found old Forestry Maps used "in-office" by them give a nice huge piece of white paper for patterning.
Your local forestry office may give them to you, in a large bundle of rolled-up maps. That is how I got mine. They are about 48" square, map on one side, plain paper on the other. A roll of butcher's paper is another option.

[Mike Brooks]

I'm not sure we have a Forestry Office in Iowa. I may have better luck at the Corn Field Office.

[mossyhorn]

I know that working up a load is the goal of achieving the best patterns but is equal volumes of powder and shot a starting point. Does the old adage of less powder more lead shoots farther, kills dead really have some valid points.

[Mike Brooks]

I know that working up a load is the goal of achieving the best patterns but is equal volumes of powder and shot a starting point. Does the old adage of less powder more lead shoots farther, kills dead really have some valid points.

A little less powder tends to not blow the pattern and make the center fuller in a cylinder bored gun in my experience. Although I have had guns that will shoot equal amounts just fine.