Author Topic: Question(s) for the horn makers  (Read 3230 times)

Offline Mike from OK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
Question(s) for the horn makers
« on: January 03, 2019, 03:30:20 AM »
After a couple of clumsy attempts at crafting horns I have began studying whatever sources I can get my hands on... I watch any tutorial I can find and have purchased a handful of books...

A good majority of my sources mention using cabinet scrapers for removal and smoothing.

Are cabinet scrapers an indispensable tool?

Do you have all the different profiles or just the standard rectangular scraper?

Last... And probably a dumb question... Would you recommend investing in the top of the line? Doesn't matter, buy cheap? Or a decent mid-grade tool?

Mike

Offline alyce-james

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 909
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2019, 03:46:03 AM »
Mike; Sir, a selected chunk of odd broken window glass has served me well for many years. I duck tape the edge under my hand for safety control. Enjoyed horn making. AJ.
"Candy is Dandy but Liquor is Quicker". by Poet Ogden Nash 1931.

Offline PrairieD

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2019, 04:06:45 AM »
Hey Mike!

I've had good luck using utility knife blades for scrapers for smoothing on horns (and cleaning up any mistakes in doing scrimshaw! ;-)  -- a wood or farriers rasp can do the major removal and shaping. You really don't need too much considering that horn is about as tough as your fingernails...

(another) Mike...
Pretty Prairie, KS

 



 

Offline Mike from OK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2019, 04:27:45 AM »
Thanks guys. My first 2 horns were scraped using a small Buck pocket knife... Worked OK,  but it was tough on the hands holding it.

May try the glass. Or I have some flint shards to try out.

Mike

Offline Greg Pennell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1523
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2019, 04:46:22 AM »
Mike, I use a scraper made from a small piece of a handsaw blade. It’s about 3”x4” rectangle...I just put it in my vise and file the edges square with a small mill file, and use all four edges, until they don’t cut well, then file them square again. If I remember, I used a dremel and cutoff wheel to cut a few pieces from an old sawblade...been using them for years on both wood and horn.

Greg
“Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks” Thomas Jefferson

Offline Top Jaw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 575
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2019, 05:45:02 AM »
I think the kind of scrapping your referring to for bulk material removal in the early stages of horn building can only be effectively achieved with a two handed draw knife type scrapper.  I have a nice smaller one that's curved that I bought off of a trade blanket and use sometimes.  However I usually start bulk removal and shaping with aggressive files and/or sometimes with a belt sander on really thick horns.  I also use a rectangular cabinet scrapper a lot, but only after the filling is about done to smooth out the rasp marks and to do some spot clean up of any high spots.  It leaves a really good finish.  They don't cost much.  Mine has a plastic sleeve that slides over it and protects the edge. 

Offline elk killer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1514
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2019, 03:56:06 PM »
I use a carbide cutter from a lathe, never dulls and have had it for more years
than I care to think about
only flintlocks remain interesting..

Offline Robby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2655
  • NYSSR ―
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2019, 04:24:56 PM »
I bought an old hand saw at the flea market for a couple bucks and have made many scrapers from it used in hogging off lots of material as well as finer finesse scrapers for finishing, ground in all shapes and contour's. I also use them on gunstocks and making ramrods. I haven't even used the whole blade yet.
Robby
molon labe
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. A. Lincoln

Offline aaronc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 793
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2019, 04:48:03 PM »
I use hand files for rough out.....but I do use cabinet scrapers to finely shape and finish flat work. I think they work well for that. Good luck.
- Aaron C
At the work bench.

Offline Mike from OK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2019, 05:24:18 PM »
I have all the files and rasps for roughing and shaping... Just wondered about the cabinet scrapers.

Mike

Offline Tim Crosby

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18385
  • AKA TimBuckII
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2019, 06:46:13 PM »
 Some of it depends on what kind of finish you are looking for or what type of horn you are making. If you have gotten through the rough work and shaping and are down to finishing scrapers may be your first step. Don't spend money on fancy scrapers as Robby said old saws may be broken and ground, you don't need any fancy shapes a straight edge will do what you want, different sizes may help. Broken Band Saw, Hacksaw blades work well. A scraper used right should flex a bit. A couple are shown in the Pix along with the small draw knife that I use to start, the one was an attempt to make a draw knife of sorts out of a utility knife blade, I didn't like the way it cut, until I took the knife edge off of it, squared it up, still doesn't get much use. I do not put a burr on the edge but prefer them square, done by rubbing them flat on a stone, all flats including the edges, just keep them square to the stone. A block of wood with the blade held at the side rubbed back and forth on the stone works well for the edges. Once you do all Six sides do them again. Held at an angle you should get nice shavings off the horn.
 Once again depending on the style of horn scraping  can be the final finish. Roughed with the draw knife, then shaped with different cut rasps (should not be able to see any cut marks, here is where a scraper come in handy, to check, coat the horn with a dark stain, wipe it off and you will be able to see any marks, use a scraper to removed all the marks and stain, this may have to be done more than once)  next with sandpaper starting with 60 Grit and moving to 100, 150, 180, 200, 220 and 320 followed by 0000 Steel wool is the route I usually take.

  Tim C.     





« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 06:51:48 PM by Tim Crosby »

Offline Mike from OK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2019, 06:59:13 PM »
Wow! Thanks Tim.

How much material are you removing with the draw knife? That's what I always used to rough down corners on turning stock and such.

Mike

Offline Tim Crosby

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18385
  • AKA TimBuckII
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2019, 07:39:13 PM »
Wow! Thanks Tim.

How much material are you removing with the draw knife? That's what I always used to rough down corners on turning stock and such.

Mike

  Kind of depends on if its is a raw or polished horn, how thick it is and how much needs to come off, especially around the tip area. It is easy to rough shape a tip quickly with it and then switch over to rasps to finish it and the rest of the horn.

  Tim

 

Offline Elnathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1773
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2019, 06:19:02 AM »
I have that exact same make and model of drawknife. As far as I recall, though, the one time I tried to use it on a horn (a cutoff I was making into a rum horn) I have problems with it splitting off too much material - I didn't ruin the horn, but it got scary thin in places.
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Offline Tim Crosby

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18385
  • AKA TimBuckII
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2019, 04:29:02 PM »
I have that exact same make and model of drawknife. As far as I recall, though, the one time I tried to use it on a horn (a cutoff I was making into a rum horn) I have problems with it splitting off too much material - I didn't ruin the horn, but it got scary thin in places.

 Flip it over and try the other side, bevel up will dig in, try the flat side against the horn and use your wrists to flip the blade up. Remember the draw knife is for rough work, taking off scale and thinning out sides, then the rasps come into play.

  Tim C.

Offline Top Jaw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 575
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2019, 09:02:50 PM »
When using a drawknife on horn, unlike with wood, your using it as a scraper and not a cutter, so you have to change the angle of the blade to be more perpendicular to the horn, or as was suggested, invert the bevel to get a better angle for scraping.  You want little ribbons of horn  coming off from the surface.  Not chips or chunks.

Offline Marcruger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3702
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2019, 09:05:12 PM »
Hey Mike,

If you have ever seen Tim's horns, you'll know to trust what he says.  He is pretty amazing. 

Best wishes,   Marc

Offline Mike from OK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2019, 06:03:31 PM »
Thank you for all the advice and information.

Now I just need a supply of horns... And not work 60 hours a week so I have time to devote to working horn.

Mike

Offline Tim Crosby

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18385
  • AKA TimBuckII
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2019, 09:16:41 PM »
 We all do things a little different, I use the Draw knife as a cutter just as I would on wood. It took me more time to take the Pix, write this up and post it than it did the work. First pick show how thick it was to start last where it is now ready to be worked with rasps. You can see the size of some of the chips.
 After a few you will get the hang of it. Get an old piece of $#@* horn practice on it, you will not need to use the knife on all horns but when you do it will speed things up greatly. Just be sure and keep it razor sharp.

  Tim

 








Offline Top Jaw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 575
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2019, 03:48:52 AM »
If you look on YouTube for an episode of “How It’s Made” powder horns,  Mike Small demonstrates the scrapping technique on a rough horn. 

Offline Tim Crosby

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18385
  • AKA TimBuckII
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2019, 05:16:54 PM »
If you look on YouTube for an episode of “How It’s Made” powder horns,  Mike Small demonstrates the scrapping technique on a rough horn.

 Thanks, I'll take a look.

   Tim

Offline Mike from OK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2019, 10:41:43 PM »
We all do things a little different, I use the Draw knife as a cutter just as I would on wood. It took me more time to take the Pix, write this up and post it than it did the work. First pick show how thick it was to start last where it is now ready to be worked with rasps. You can see the size of some of the chips.
 After a few you will get the hang of it. Get an old piece of $#@* horn practice on it, you will not need to use the knife on all horns but when you do it will speed things up greatly. Just be sure and keep it razor sharp.

  Tim

 








Thanks Tim. Seeing it in action helps a lot. I will see about picking one up.

Mike

Offline Mike from OK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2019, 10:45:11 PM »
If you look on YouTube for an episode of “How It’s Made” powder horns,  Mike Small demonstrates the scrapping technique on a rough horn.

I've watched that one a few times. There is also a video on the Wood and Shop YouTube channel with Mark Thomas scraping a horn with a cabinet scraper.

Everything I have seen thus far where scrapers are used shows the makers using a rectangular scraper... I haven't seen any other scraper profiles used.

Mike

Offline Mike from OK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2019, 10:48:26 PM »
Does anyone use (or tried) a spokeshave?

Mike

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19525
Re: Question(s) for the horn makers
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2019, 12:47:44 AM »
Does anyone use (or tried) a spokeshave?

Mike

Yes, with indifferent results. Works on convex surfaces. On inside, concave surfaces, a spokeshave with a round surface is needed. Light cuts are needed as the shavings are stiff and strong and can bind everything up. 
Andover, Vermont