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Author Topic: Out With the Castings!  (Read 6047 times)

Offline Robby

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2019, 05:10:01 PM »
Beautifully done!!! Do you heat treat the blades? If so, in house?
Robby
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molon labe
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2019, 05:11:55 PM »
From what I have seen and heard about foundries not wanting our business
these triggers will be a welcome addition.I have had good response to my
offering of double set triggers in spite of not having any way to mass produce
them.I know for a fact that quality control in foundries can vary from really
good to absolutely wretched. I recall lock plates with curves and when any
straightening was tried they shattered like glass. I well remember L.C.Rice
telling me a foundry foreman telling him,"We do not worry about quality control,
we do production". I hope all such foundries are now gone broke.
We had one within 2 miles of me here and the management spent more time
at hockey games than running a shop and there is little left of that place now
and I say "GOOD RIDDENCE"! Jerry Devaudreuil gave them a good order for
tomahawks and they ruined nearly all of them.
I hope for and wish Jim and Katherine AND little Henry the best possible outcome
in this venture.

Bob Roller
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Fowler610

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2019, 06:25:48 PM »
Jim, you mentioned the new triggers when I placed my SMR order with you the other day--now I get it!  Wow!  They're beautiful.  Thank you for all you do. 

Ps. The YouTube videos are extremely helpful.  Thank you.
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Offline t.caster

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2019, 07:48:11 PM »
Outstanding use of mfg. technology! Good luck and I can't wait to see what's next from you guys! Locks???
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Tom C.

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2019, 08:28:34 PM »
Quote from: Carl Young on January 09, 2019, 10:19:24 PM
Jim and Catherine you are doing an exceptional job, not only the quality of your products, but also in building a business. Every year at our local junior college I talk with the precision machining/manufacturing students about being in business, and I use you as an example of the mindset and commitment it takes to turn an idea into reality. They are all fascinated by guns (we're in the rural south) and I can see the "lights come on" in their eyes when I show them photos of your work and tell them how you are revolutionizing the business while raising a family in a location of your choosing.

Wishing you the best,
Carl Young, JD, PhD
Mississippi State University, College of Business

Carl,

Thanks for sharing your story.  It was really nice for Katherine and I to hear.

All the best,
Jim
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2019, 08:30:47 PM »
Quote from: bgf on January 09, 2019, 10:55:47 PM
Don't get me started on the possibilities!  Now MY lock can have a double throated cock and a flat lock plate...:).

My only issue with milling has always been that it is somewhat wasteful of material compared to forging or casting, but it makes more sense in these small volume applications. 

Just curious, is MIM practical in small volume?  I know people hate the idea but I've yet to see the supposed shortcomings of the parts....

Material is the cheap part.  If some is wasted, not a big deal.

I don't know much about MIM, but I expect tooling is very expensive as well as processing equipment.  I don't think it's too flexible either.  Nice thing about CNC machining is that designs can be updated or changed relatively easily.

Thanks,
Jim
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2019, 08:39:59 PM »
Quote from: B.Barker on January 10, 2019, 03:44:02 AM
Great looking triggers Jim. Is it about the same cost to produce cnc parts as cast parts? I personally would be willing to pay more for cnc made locks and set triggers if you don't need to tune them.

Brian,

Great question.  I'm not sure of cost comparisons at this point.  When we do another batch, I'll probably have a better idea.  I feel certain that the price is close enough that the added quality out weighs any potential additional expense.  Castings have a lot of hidden costs as well such as dealing with scrap, delivery problems from foundries etc.

As we machine more parts, we also learn and become more efficient.

Thanks,
Jim
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2019, 08:41:56 PM »
Quote from: JTR on January 10, 2019, 04:29:53 AM
Are you going to sell these separately, or only in a kit?
if so, how much?
And I'll take one, thank you.
John

Since there has been such a good response, I'll make a batch of maybe 100 triggers to sell individually.  I'll modify them so that the trigger bars are higher and can be more easily used on a variety of guns.  I have other more pressing projects right now, but will commit to this.  Not sure of pricing at this point.

Thanks,
Jim
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2019, 08:45:38 PM »
Quote from: Bob Roller on January 10, 2019, 05:11:55 PM
From what I have seen and heard about foundries not wanting our business
these triggers will be a welcome addition.I have had good response to my
offering of double set triggers in spite of not having any way to mass produce
them.I know for a fact that quality control in foundries can vary from really
good to absolutely wretched. I recall lock plates with curves and when any
straightening was tried they shattered like glass. I well remember L.C.Rice
telling me a foundry foreman telling him,"We do not worry about quality control,
we do production". I hope all such foundries are now gone broke.
We had one within 2 miles of me here and the management spent more time
at hockey games than running a shop and there is little left of that place now
and I say "GOOD RIDDENCE"! Jerry Devaudreuil gave them a good order for
tomahawks and they ruined nearly all of them.
I hope for and wish Jim and Katherine AND little Henry the best possible outcome
in this venture.

Bob Roller

You got that right, Bob.  Foundries have been very difficult for us and have cost us a great deal of money.  Terrible quality, delivery and lots of broken promises.  We moved on from the company that gave us so much difficulty and are working with a couple others right now.

To Bob and everyone else, thanks so much for the encouragement.  We work hard and it can sometimes be tiring and frustrating.  Words like these help keep us pushing forward.

All the best,
Jim
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2019, 08:50:09 PM »
Jim- I am absolutely blown away with these triggers. What a great adventure for you both.

Opening up parts industry, Trail Blazers, both of you. Well done.
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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline SingleMalt

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2019, 12:46:38 AM »
Excellent!  I can't wait to see them for sale individually.
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Offline Scota4570

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2019, 03:11:03 AM »
A variation on the rear trigger might be welcome.  Make the radius of the rear trigger larger.  My finger it too fat to fit as made.  I had to open up both on the ones I assembled to make them comfortable to use.  My hands are not freakishly large.   
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2019, 04:42:16 PM »
Quote from: Scota4570 on January 11, 2019, 03:11:03 AM
A variation on the rear trigger might be welcome.  Make the radius of the rear trigger larger.  My finger it too fat to fit as made.  I had to open up both on the ones I assembled to make them comfortable to use.  My hands are not freakishly large.   

I made one of my triggers with a deeper than normal curve and I didn't care for it at all.
Setting a trigger once it's in the wood should be a comfortable move.

Bob Roller
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Offline WadePatton

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2019, 05:26:59 PM »
Fantastic Jim and Katherine!

You've raised the bar again.  I did sorta expect metal parts to follow your other advances. Kudos for finding the right place and time to make it happen.

Much continued success to y'all.
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Hold to the Wind

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2019, 05:43:34 PM »
Quote from: Scota4570 on January 11, 2019, 03:11:03 AM
A variation on the rear trigger might be welcome.  Make the radius of the rear trigger larger.  My finger it too fat to fit as made.  I had to open up both on the ones I assembled to make them comfortable to use.  My hands are not freakishly large.   

Yeah, I hear what your saying.  This is definetely a stylistic thing often seen on mountain rifles.  Personally they don't cause any discomfort for me due to how I use them.  I set them more with the side of my finger than the front.  I find this quite natural due to how a gun is held around the wrist.  Now this wouldn't work if you try to set after the gun is mounted on your shoulder.

I'll make a larger version more suitable for earlier rifles where the rear trigger sweeps back in a gentle curve.

Nice thing is with the mountain rifle triggers, they are very soft and can be bent and opened up without any trouble.  Another good reason to avoid hard brittle castings!

All the best,
Jim
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Offline Robby

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2019, 01:53:05 AM »
So, no heat treat required?
Robin
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molon labe
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. A. Lincoln

Offline Timothy88

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2019, 02:04:28 AM »
WOW

Those look great!
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2019, 02:34:56 AM »
Quote from: Robby on January 12, 2019, 01:53:05 AM
So, no heat treat required?
Robin

Just bend cold.  We don’t heat treat the shoe so it can be bent as desired.
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Offline Robby

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2019, 02:56:39 AM »
No, I said the blades, on the triggers themselves, which would include the leading edges where the contact for the set and tripping occurs.
Robby
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molon labe
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. A. Lincoln

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2019, 04:40:17 AM »
The heat treatment of the mechanism is completed by us.  This is a finished, ready to use unit.

Jim
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Offline Old Ford2

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2019, 05:51:43 PM »
Very informative thread.
I look forward to be able to purchase a well made set of triggers without having to remake and harden the trigger module.
Great step forward!
Fred
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Offline Marcruger

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2019, 05:59:37 PM »
"I'll make a larger version more suitable for earlier rifles where the rear trigger sweeps back in a gentle curve.
"
That would make for an interesting option on your Colonial era rifle as well.  :-)   God Bless,   Marc
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Offline Ecramer

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2019, 10:42:34 PM »
Beautiful. Next, locks!
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Offline BadDaditood

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2019, 06:29:28 AM »
Whoa there, I haven’t even started on my second kit and now I hafta order a third...  ::)
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Offline dogcatcher

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2019, 08:22:59 AM »
Great JOB!!!
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