Author Topic: Out With the Castings!  (Read 6044 times)

Offline Jim Kibler

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Out With the Castings!
« on: January 09, 2019, 08:20:06 PM »
The muzzleloading industry depends heavily on investment castings.  Without these it's hard to imagine it being anything like it is today.   Locks parts, trigger parts, guards, buttplates etc. are typically produced by the investment casting process.  These castings can work very well for some parts, but leave a lot to be desired on other parts. 

Part of our push as a company has been to improve the quality of traditional muzzleloading parts and components available.  Early on we made the decision to use CNC to produce stocks used in our rifle kits and the benefits were immediately apparent.  We soon realized the precision of our stocks exceeded that of the metal parts in many cases!  So naturally we became interested in CNC machining some of the other components.  Eventually we purchased a VMC and it too quickly showed it's value.  We started by machining relatively simple parts such as underlugs, trigger plates, sideplates etc.  The next step was to machine set triggers.

We've recently finished the first batch and wanted to take the time to show what we have accomplished.  These triggers are fully machined.  No castings are used.  The CNC produced parts have several advantages.  First we can produce parts in-house.  We are not at the mercy of a foundry.  In our experience, the more we can control ourselves the better success we can have as a company.  In addition and most importantly, the quality of these parts, far exceeds castings.  Parts are produced to tolerances of .001-.002".  This allows for repeatability and truly inter-changeable parts.  In the end, this precision results in a part that functions extraordinarily well with very little hand work and tuning.

So, below are some images of our first CNC produced set triggers.  It's a big step for us moving forward and we're quite proud.  If you have any questions, just ask.

All the best,
Jim and Katherine









Offline smokinbuck

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2019, 08:41:54 PM »
WOW!
 Jim,
You and Katherine are continuing to create a new standard of excellence in the muzzleloading and muzzleloading parts field. Those triggers are beautiful, to say the least. Every industry has its innovators and leaders and you are proving to be one of the best.
Mark
Mark

Offline mountainman70

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2019, 08:48:47 PM »
I second the WOW !!! Em's some fine looking triggers for sure.  You gonna offer these for separate sale? I can certainly put 2-3 sets to a good home.
Very impressed.Thanks you Jim and Katherine. Best regards, Dave f 8) 8)

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2019, 08:50:14 PM »
Will you be offering these to the general public or are they reserved only for your kits? By the way - VERY nice indeed ;).
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline Kingsburyarms

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2019, 09:21:36 PM »
Absolutely fantastic, These are precise, accurate and exceptional. Hat's off to Jim and Katherine as they are not only expanding the reach of materials but also allowing others (like me) without the capability of making my own parts, to get the most precise components possible.

Thanks Jim and Katherine!!! -

Jon

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2019, 09:59:15 PM »
Thanks guys.  We've worked hard to produce not only a very precise component, but also one with great design.  Both are important. 

For now these will only be available with our Mountain Rifle kits, but in time we will offer them for sale on an individual basis.  The core of our business is our kits and they demand our focus.  We'll also be making a version of these triggers suitable for an earlier rifle as well.

Next on the priority list is fully machined breech plugs for our mountain rifles.  One thing at a time...

Thanks!
Jim

Offline smart dog

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2019, 10:03:21 PM »
Well done Jim and Katherine!!

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline stubshaft

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2019, 10:13:02 PM »
Great job Jim!
I'd rather die standing, than live on my knees...

Offline Carl Young

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2019, 10:19:24 PM »
Jim and Catherine you are doing an exceptional job, not only the quality of your products, but also in building a business. Every year at our local junior college I talk with the precision machining/manufacturing students about being in business, and I use you as an example of the mindset and commitment it takes to turn an idea into reality. They are all fascinated by guns (we're in the rural south) and I can see the "lights come on" in their eyes when I show them photos of your work and tell them how you are revolutionizing the business while raising a family in a location of your choosing.

Wishing you the best,
Carl Young, JD, PhD
Mississippi State University, College of Business
Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses. -Juvenal

Offline bgf

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2019, 10:55:47 PM »
Don't get me started on the possibilities!  Now MY lock can have a double throated cock and a flat lock plate...:).

My only issue with milling has always been that it is somewhat wasteful of material compared to forging or casting, but it makes more sense in these small volume applications. 

Just curious, is MIM practical in small volume?  I know people hate the idea but I've yet to see the supposed shortcomings of the parts....

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2019, 12:48:20 AM »
OUTSTANDING!!Congratulations on a job well done.I am glad to see these
and I don't think they'll be hard to sell.

Bob Roller

Offline Martin S.

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2019, 01:02:33 AM »
Congratulations, and I wish you continued success.

Well done!

Offline Clowdis

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2019, 01:25:51 AM »
I really like the look of those Jim, well done and keep up the good work.

Offline Huntschool

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2019, 02:38:53 AM »
Jim:

Absolutely outstanding...….  I look forward to being able to use one of these.
Bruce A. Hering
Program Coordinator/Lead Instructor (retired)
Shotgun Team Coach
Southeastern Illinois College
AMM 761
CLA

galudwig

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2019, 02:46:29 AM »
Awesome news! Looks like you guys are set to revolutionize the component industry! Good luck and looking forward to seeing all the things to come!

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2019, 03:17:29 AM »
When I saw that you had CNC stocks, I wondered how long it would be before coming up with CNC parts, as opposed to castings.  You have done very well, and I look forward to a year or so when I have my own Kibler rifle in my rack here at home.
Please keep up the good work.  You serve as an inspiration for many others, and provide a great kit for those of us who are not exactly fine rifle producers.  You make it easier for us to do well in our chosen avocation.

Many thank-you's!
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline B.Barker

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2019, 03:44:02 AM »
Great looking triggers Jim. Is it about the same cost to produce cnc parts as cast parts? I personally would be willing to pay more for cnc made locks and set triggers if you don't need to tune them.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2019, 04:17:40 AM »
This is a fabulous development. For all the time I spend fiddling with quality castings, a ready to roll trigger set is very attractive. Great work, and hat's off to you and Catherine, Jim. There is no moss growing under your feet.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline JTR

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2019, 04:29:53 AM »
Are you going to sell these separately, or only in a kit?
if so, how much?
And I'll take one, thank you.
John
John Robbins

Offline L Meadows

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2019, 05:08:39 AM »
Any chance of seeing the mountain rifle kit offered in percussion?

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2019, 05:26:11 AM »
Congratulations Jim, that is great news.  I can not wait to buy a Kibler lock.  Barrels are a bottle neck, maybe someday?  Hopefully you can do everything in house someday.  That would certainly be the highest quality ML rifles ever produced in quantity.

Offline dstock

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2019, 05:28:41 AM »
Fine job Jim and a great looking set of triggers. When the time comes when you are able to sell to the public I would sure like a set also.

It's about time we see some high quality triggers for Tenn. Rifles. Butt plates, trigger guards and locks next. I hope!
You guys are the ones to do it.

Doug
God Bless
God Bless
Doug B

Offline mony

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2019, 05:44:59 AM »
Good for you. . .And for us. Love to have a set. Tell me how.

Offline Flint62Smoothie

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2019, 06:42:30 AM »
Huzzah!
All of my muzzleloaders will shoot into one ragged hole ALL DAY LONG ... it's just the 2nd or 3rd & other shots that tend to open up my groups ... !

Offline Curtis

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Re: Out With the Castings!
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2019, 08:36:10 AM »
That's simply marvelous news, Jim!  They look great, congratulations to you and Katherine on your successful endeavors.

Curtis
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing