Author Topic: Swamped Barrels (Read 3876 times)

Mike Lyons · « **on:** January 10, 2019, 07:56:46 PM »

I've made two rifles from kits. I'm going to buy all the pieces and a plank on my next rifle. This is unreal. The choices of barrels are confusing as $#@*. A-D weight with two different sizes for B 44" barrel in a Lancaster series. B and C weight in a Golden Age 46" series and then the Allen Town Barrel in A - D and then the 48" ones. My gosh. I understand measurements but what are the pros and cons of A - D. Is it like a tennis racket using weight forward and stuff? If that is the case, why wouldn't you always go with C and D placing the weight to the rear? I apologize for all the questions. I have researched a ton on this topic.

http://ricebarrels.com/chart.html

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2019, 08:07:58 PM »

It has to do with the profile/weight. A being the slimmest and lightest and D being the biggest/heaviest. See their charts for dimensions. At breech to muzzle.
Dennis

stuart cee dub · « **Reply #2 on:** January 10, 2019, 08:49:46 PM »

Afganvet ,

Help us narrow down the field.

I suggest you give us a caliber and a barrel length you like and members of the forum might suggest profiles and makers which worked out well for them in their builds .

For example I have an old 'b' weight Getz at 42'' that is light balances very well and made a nice trim rifle .But I wouldn't build another .50 caliber 38'' Isaac Haines but would use the same profile in .54 caliber.

It would handle just a bit better and have a better power to weight ratio.

Daryl · « **Reply #3 on:** January 10, 2019, 08:53:22 PM »

AfghanVet, if you are in fairly decent shape, as good as my old brother at 70yrs. age, the C weight from Jim Chambers in .50 cal makes a perfect hunting and Rendezvous rifle.

Taylor used this one in his 'Voluptuous' Virginia rifle - perfect holding - Nice! I think that rifle came out around 10 or 10 1/2 pounds.

hanshi · « **Reply #4 on:** January 10, 2019, 10:28:23 PM »

The .40 and .50 swamped barrels of two of my guns are "B" wgt. Both balance superbly with the .50 being unexpectedly light in wgt. The .32 is an "A" wgt and all three are .38". The .40 has substantial weight but handles like a dream.

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #5 on:** January 10, 2019, 10:45:27 PM »

My first rifle was a Lancaster with a 42” .45 strait Colerain. My second was a Lehigh with a 44” .50 B Colerain. The swamped barrel is very light feeling. I like the rifle a lot even though I gripe about it some. Handling it is a dream. I don’t know what it weighs but it feels lighter than any other .45 or .50 I’ve held with a strait barrel. I’m wanting to build a very slim Lehigh barn rifle with a 42” -44” swamped barrel in .36. I’m going to do this one from a plank and buy some parts and make others.

rich pierce · « **Reply #6 on:** January 10, 2019, 11:15:26 PM »

You’ll need an A or B in a .36. There don’t be any C weights in .36, methinks. A, B, C, and D all refer to diameter at breech. Not profile.

smallpatch · « **Reply #7 on:** January 10, 2019, 11:36:24 PM »

Afghan,
The Allentown barrel is a great profile for a slim, fully developed Lehigh. Weight will be based on the caliber. Larger caliber, lighter weight.

Darkhorse · « **Reply #8 on:** January 12, 2019, 04:35:10 AM »

Quote from: stuart cee dub on January 10, 2019, 08:49:46 PM

Afganvet ,

Help us narrow down the field.

I suggest you give us a caliber and a barrel length you like and members of the forum might suggest profiles and makers which worked out well for them in their builds .

For example I have an old 'b' weight Getz at 42'' that is light balances very well and made a nice trim rifle .But I wouldn't build another .50 caliber 38'' Isaac Haines but would use the same profile in .54 caliber.

It would handle just a bit better and have a better power to weight ratio.

Are you saying someone builds a B profile barrel in .54 caliber? I thought the .54's started with C profiles.

mountainman70 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 12, 2019, 05:05:28 AM »

Well, Mike--afghanvet, I seem to remember telling you you cant build just one !!!hahaha You are doin well,Pilgrim. have a great weekend. Club dinner meeting tomorrow at 2 pm in Nitro,Wv .St Pauls Methodist church.
Hope to see you and bro Bean. Dave F

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #10 on:** January 12, 2019, 06:04:25 AM »

We shooting in the morning first? I’ll be at the range either way.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #11 on:** January 12, 2019, 08:10:08 PM »

Quote from: Afghanvet on January 10, 2019, 10:45:27 PM

My first rifle was a Lancaster with a 42” .45 strait Colerain. My second was a Lehigh with a 44” .50 B Colerain. The swamped barrel is very light feeling. I like the rifle a lot even though I gripe about it some. Handling it is a dream. I don’t know what it weighs but it feels lighter than any other .45 or .50 I’ve held with a strait barrel. I’m wanting to build a very slim Lehigh barn rifle with a 42” -44” swamped barrel in .36. I’m going to do this one from a plank and buy some parts and make others.

For a .36 you can go A weight which will be a very light barrel or go B weight which will be heavier of course. I built a Deep River gun with a B weight .36 and found it a little heavy for my tastes....of course it's probably more historically correct. If you're going to go A weight you'll want a lock with a thick bolster. I'm doing a Lehigh with a 7/8" breech right now and am using a Zornes "classic" lock. It's Between the two Silers in size and has a thick bolster. Working out well.

Elnathan · « **Reply #12 on:** January 12, 2019, 08:33:13 PM »

Generally:

A Weight: 15/16" at breech
B: 1" at breech
C: 1-1/16" at breech
D: 1-1/8"

Within the same profile, other dimensions will be in proportion - the waist will get thicker in 1/16" increments; same with the muzzle. Different profiles, particularly with Rice, may more or less swamp for a given length, which will change the balance point a bit for a given weight and caliber, and may be more or historically accurate for a given build.

Incidentally, not everyone wants a barrel with the balance point as far back as possible - I have a Getz b-weight 44" in .50 on my rifle, and while it is a dream to carry it it is a pill to hold steady off-hand. Next rifle I build will be considerably heavier, both because I like the feeling of a heavy rifle and because it seems like most originals were considerably stouter than current fashion. You really need a C-weight or heavier for a Pre-Rev rifle for decent architecture, and I note that George Hanger claimed that the average weight of Revolutionary-era longrifle was 6 pounds, 3-4 ounces in the barrel. A Rice D-weight 44" in .50 caliber is just a few ounces heavier than that, and while most folks would consider such a combination insane, I think it is probably fairly close to what a typical longrifle barrel from that period would handle like when new.

SingleMalt · « **Reply #13 on:** January 12, 2019, 10:38:09 PM »

It also depends on the period of the rifle you're building. Early rifles tended to be of larger caliber than later rifles. Personally, I like the look of the large breech on a swamped barrel.

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2019, 09:03:19 AM »

I agree with you Mr. SingleMalt. I like the large look too. Most of the original rifles that I have looked at in museums have a massive swamped barrel. Quite a bit more than my B weight. I’m wanting a small caliber and a very slim rifle. I don’t know that a D weight is practical for a .36 or .32. I don’t even know if they can be had.

flehto · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2019, 04:11:30 PM »

I've made one Bucks County LR w/ an "A" weight X 42" in .36 cal. and it was OK but prefer a longer "B" weight for most builds...both Bucks County and Lancaster. The BC s have a 46" bbl while the Lancasters have a 44" bbl......both in .50 cal. For whatever reason, the balance points on both styles end up in the same area.....at the finial of the entry pipe and when held at the balance point, the rear sight is located just forward of the hand......Fred

poems about despair

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2019, 05:23:35 PM »

Quote from: Afghanvet on January 13, 2019, 09:03:19 AM

I agree with you Mr. SingleMalt. I like the large look too. Most of the original rifles that I have looked at in museums have a massive swamped barrel. Quite a bit more than my B weight. I’m wanting a small caliber and a very slim rifle. I don’t know that a D weight is practical for a .36 or .32. I don’t even know if they can be had.

Any thing can be had if you're willing to wait.

Elnathan · « **Reply #17 on:** January 14, 2019, 02:38:01 AM »

Quote from: Afghanvet on January 13, 2019, 09:03:19 AM

I agree with you Mr. SingleMalt. I like the large look too. Most of the original rifles that I have looked at in museums have a massive swamped barrel. Quite a bit more than my B weight. I’m wanting a small caliber and a very slim rifle. I don’t know that a D weight is practical for a .36 or .32. I don’t even know if they can be had.

Not on expert on the style, but the classic Lehighs are post-Revolutionary, from the period when the old radically swamped barrels were falling out of favor and more subtly swamped barrels with smaller breeches were more common. Eric von Aschwege has plans for Lehigh rifles with 1" or smaller breeches: http://www.vonaschwegeflintlocks.com/plans.html

My comment was more about the size and weight of originals in general, as opposed to what is popular today, rather than your specific requirements. I wasn't suggesting that you get a D-weight .36. Sorry for any confusion.

stuart cee dub · « **Reply #18 on:** January 14, 2019, 05:54:33 PM »

Reply to Darkhorse ,
No ''b'' weight in a 38'' in a 54 that I'm aware of .
My language was less than precise .

I recently purchased a 38'' long Issac Haines Colerain from Track in a 50 cal it's like a short c weight . In retrospect I should have gone to a .54 .It would have been much more dynamic

I guess I like a barrel between 4.5 and 5 lbs .
Some are much heavier dedicated target rifles but I'm getting lazy I suspect and like a well balanced and trim general purpose longrifle

Darkhorse · « **Reply #19 on:** January 15, 2019, 04:01:29 AM »

stuart cee dub...Thanks I understand.
I have a Rice B 38" in .40 caliber
I also have a Colrain C 38" in .54 which is my deer rifle.
Due to shoulder problems I need to lighten things up so I'm thinking about building one with a B weight 38" in .50 caliber for a slight weight savings. I have become fond of the slimmer profile of the B weight barrel also.

stuart cee dub · « **Reply #20 on:** January 15, 2019, 09:00:07 PM »

The right barrel will make or break a build .

There are so many varieties it actually make things worse not better.
Worse still it's hard to get your hands on something before you order it.
So much of what we are doing is done by feel .

I agree with the posts that conclude that most originals were mostly heavier in the barrel but nothing we build is original anyway. Inspired by ? Yes.
But by our own definition we are all fantasy builders living in the 21st century making 18th century items with modern machinery .There isn't a thing wrong with that .
Some are just more fanciful than others .

hanshi · « **Reply #21 on:** January 15, 2019, 11:51:08 PM »

I was in error in my previous post concerning the .40 rifle I own with a swamped barrel. It is in fact a "C" wgt barrel.

smallpatch · « **Reply #22 on:** January 16, 2019, 02:43:28 AM »

Wow, a C wt .40 is a beast!

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #23 on:** January 16, 2019, 05:53:47 AM »

Quote from: Mike Brooks on January 13, 2019, 05:23:35 PM

Quote from: Afghanvet on January 13, 2019, 09:03:19 AM
I agree with you Mr. SingleMalt. I like the large look too. Most of the original rifles that I have looked at in museums have a massive swamped barrel. Quite a bit more than my B weight. I’m wanting a small caliber and a very slim rifle. I don’t know that a D weight is practical for a .36 or .32. I don’t even know if they can be had.
Any thing can be had if you're willing to wait.

I had rotator cuff surgery a while back and although the shoulder don’t hurt, it doesn’t have the stamina it had. I don’t think a .36 or .32 in a D weight would be as nice as an A. I’ve never held an A or D, so I might be talking out my butt.

bob in the woods · « **Reply #24 on:** January 16, 2019, 07:13:14 AM »

I have built more 38 in B weight .50 cal. rifles than anything else. Next is the 38 in C in .54 Next up are the same but in 42 in length. Once someone who is thinking about a rifle handles one of these, they usually smile and make up their minds right away.

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Author Topic: Swamped Barrels (Read 3876 times)