Double balling

[HelmutKutz]

Shot placement is always a factor in a clean kill but on some types of game I want total pass through even if I don't have what ever energy efficiency is because on game such as long hair with a lot of fat under hide, as in Bear, two holes leave a better blood trail, IMHO.

When animal drops within feet of where it is shot there is no need to worry about blood trail because tracking is unnecessary.

[Davemuzz]

Well, because your load is 3 balls seated against each other, I can only assume (as I have no empirical data for proof) that each ball is obturating when shot, thus when now spinning out of the barrel. all three balls have some "flat spot" on them (one ball has 2 flat spots) and the rifling will cause the flight of the ball on each one to be much different.

So, I very much doubt the balls are close together when they hit the target. Thus, you still only have 3 balls hitting the target with roughly 556-ft\lbs ME each, vs one ball at 1,631-ft\lbs ME.

Outdoor Life magazine states that a minimum of 1,000-ft\lbs of energy is needed to ethically kill a whitetail deer. None of those 3 balls from a 3-ball load even approaches the minimum suggested energy levels. The single ball load exceeds the 1,000-ft\lb easily.

A big game animal drops within feet when there is immediate massive stoppage of blood flow to the brain, and\or a severance of the neurological system.

Again, I will trust my 1,631-ft\lbs of energy to do the job vs chancing the penetration depth, and accuracy of any 3-ball load (556-ft\lbs) from a flintlock rifle.

Dave

[Daryl]

I'm with you, Dave.  We discussed this topic today as we shot the trail. Wonderful day, above freezing sun shining.
Several of our 'hot' topics were discussed as I loaded my .36 with a .020" patch and a .350" ball. I did use Mr. Fontlock's lube
and the gun loaded exactly the same all day, no wiping, no swabbing, no cleaning of any sort, except for pushing the next ball
and patch down the bore - 2 fingers on the rod only, were needed. Rice barrel. Good day. Missed only 2 targets I think, - the straw and
string as well on the first shot so I guess that's 4.

[smylee grouch]

I would not doubt that a three ball load might be effective on SOME game at agreeable range but the shot placement/accuracy aspect has always been my most sought after aspect of the whole business and on some game the exit hole in the most advantages spot falls right in with that and a blood trail that re-affirms in my mind that I used the right load.

[HelmutKutz]

Davemuzz,
Ball spread is typically less than 165mm/6.5in at 70m/76y which is the maximum range a such load would be used. Most game is taken at 50m and less where the average spread is 100mm/4in. Even at maximum range each balls retains sufficient energy to penetrate completely deer and boar vitals. The minimum projectile energy mandates surely have arisen from my former European counterparts who formed such grossly errant assumption from reading in a library rather than observation in the field. I can see you also have no such experience in the field or you would not persist in rejecting what has been proven in the field for at least two centuries or perhaps longer even still. I do not know how else to explain to you that single ball exiting animal delivers less terminal energy to animal than two or three ball whether they exit or not. Velocity time mass is what creates energy number but it is only part of equation when interacting with biological systems where the primary concern is not how much potential energy but how much energy is transferred efficiently to biological system. Very fast ball or bullet has high number of potential energy but potential energy number means nothing as only transferred energy makes wound damage and wound damage is what kills. Smokeless gunpowder has tremendous potential energy when contained by cartridge and steel tube but when burning in open air the potential energy means nothing as all the energy is wasted. Same with balls and bullets that do not transfer energy to the biological system but waste it on the air beyond the animal.

When a single ball hits animal there is one force working in one area. When three balls hit animal there is a much larger force working as a unit. Depending upon ball spread at given range, said force may be working in one larger area or in three areas each the same as any other single ball. Once you have seen the wound channel created by a close spread of 60mm/2.36in you will understand why this is so effective for dangerous game. Even at maximum range where spread is 165mm/6.5in and one ball takes the heart or near so while other two take the lungs or shoulder the animal drops on the spot or within feet. If it is blood one wishes to see there is plenty enough issuing from four or six holes or one very large hole. Do not discount that with which you have no experience.

[Daryl]

WOW - just - WOW. 
 

[Davemuzz]

Davemuzz,
...I can see you also have no such experience in the field or you would not persist in rejecting what has been proven in the field for at least two centuries or perhaps longer even still...

No experience? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!

Proven in the field?  By who?  You? And your expertise is what?....what you type on a key board?

If 3-ball loads were so incredibly effective, then I don't understand why we don't have cartridge manufacturers developing, promoting, and using such loads "in the field."  And why?.....because the math and the actual facts and circumstances DO NOT support them as viable.

Period.

Dave

[Davemuzz]

Your ignorance of more than two centuries of history is not justification for your arrogance. Perhaps you would benefit more from study than arguing about that which you clearly do not even wish to understand. I bid you good day with link to commercial product that works very well in shotguns to which many others who tried it will agree.

http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html
[/quote Your own links support what I've been saying all along and you don't even recognize that.

Look at the link you posted:  http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html  The top item is simply a shotgun slug....the next one is your infamous 3-ball which is NOTHING MORE than a mini-buckshot load. But hey....don't believe me. Read this:  https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/buckshot-vs-slug/ And this is an excerpt from that link:

"Another disadvantage of using buckshot is the fact that since the individual pellets are normally relatively lightweight (a lead 00 buckshot pellet weighs 50-51 grains), they do not retain their energy or penetrate as well as slugs. This also limits the effectiveness of buckshot on thick-skinned animals and at longer ranges."

Buckshot has it's place....albeit, not much of a place, in big game hunting. Here in Pennsylvania it's actually illegal to use it on big game. And for good reason

Dave

[Dennis Glazener]

Ok enough about double balling I am locking this thread.
Dennis

[OldMtnMan]

I beat you to it, Dennis.

A double ball wouldn't be legal here and a single .54 ball will kill anything in Colorado. We don't have grizz anymore and i'm sure the old mountain men thought a double ball was better for grizz.