pedersoli

[snapper]

This week I was at the shot show in Vegas with a few others representing the NMLRA.

One of the companies we stopped to visit with was Pedersoli. 

I do not own any Pedersoli's, but I have always been a little amazed at the fact that as a company they are not afraid to come out with new models and the large number of different ML that they make. 

We met with the owners and they were very nice and enthusiastic people.  Lots of passion for what they do.

I am most familiar with the Pedersoli Gibbs long range ML.  These are the only commercially available long range rifle available today and in the hands of a good shooter right out of the box can win matches.

I was also a little surprised at how interested they were of our opinions on their ML and things that we would change.

I was able to handle the new SxS flint shotgun.

I know that recently there was some comments on this shotgun, so what dont you like about it?

Keeping in mind that it is mass produced, fairly inexpensive and not a custom built piece.

Fleener

[Mike Brooks]

Hard to say with out having it in hand. I see it being popular on the skeet range. What is the cost? Does it work? Does it handle like a clunker?

 I own Italian cowboy guns  and they are pretty nice guns. I have never been impressed with Italian made flint guns, they are always just a little hincky in appearance and performance. I'd like to be pleasantly surprised. Just from the little picture I can see the checkering would be better left off and a shotgun styled trigger guard would be better choice. The cocks seem a long way from the pan if they are at rest.

[Longknife]

There is a LOT they could have done to make it Truly English as they state it is but I believe its a little late to ask for input after its already in production!?,,,,In the production guns they did change the guard, at least that's what is shown on their web site. The first thing that stands out is the HIDEOUS "checkering",,, ENGLISH?, I think NOT, maybe more Italian or French, ....next are the locks,,, Hmmm would have been better using locks like on their Mortimer shotgun,,, then there is the "floral" engraving,,, ENGLISH?,,, Doesn't look like it to me!  If I had it in hand I might find some other problems,, Here is the question I would have asked Pedersoli representatives. If you want to replicate a truly "English" piece then buy an ORIGINAL English piece (or two or three) to study....well you asked,,,IMHO,,, ED

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-prodotto.asp/l_en/idpr_429/rifles-muzzle-loading-side-by-side-shotguns-side-by-side-flintlock.html

[snapper]

I apologize, the way I wrote the original post I can certainly understand why you would think there were soliciting comments on the SxS shotgun, and that was not the case.

The had a prototype long range rifle that they were looking for comments on and since 3 of us were long range shooters we were more than happy to give them our opinions and were very honest.

I agree that on some of their guns they leave too much wood.  I was happy to see that they are rust browning some guns now.  Looks much better than a hot blue.

The checkering on the shotgun I dont like either.

Fleener

[Mike Brooks]

The locks are attached I an odd way. A machine screw in the rear and a wood screw I the front. It's almost as if they have never seen a SXS flint gun before. Anybody know how much they're getting for these?

[Feltwad]

There is a LOT they could have done to make it Truly English as they state it is but I believe its a little late to ask for input after its already in production!?,,,,In the production guns they did change the guard, at least that's what is shown on their web site. The first thing that stands out is the HIDEOUS "checkering",,, ENGLISH?, I think NOT, maybe more Italian or French, ....next are the locks,,, Hmmm would have been better using locks like on their Mortimer shotgun,,, then there is the "floral" engraving,,, ENGLISH?,,, Doesn't look like it to me!  If I had it in hand I might find some other problems,, Here is the question I would have asked Pedersoli representatives. If you want to replicate a truly "English" piece then buy an ORIGINAL English piece (or two or three) to study....well you asked,,,IMHO,,, ED

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-prodotto.asp/l_en/idpr_429/rifles-muzzle-loading-side-by-side-shotguns-side-by-side-flintlock.html

They are a poor copy and very expensive  not a patch of the original
Feltwad
A Stand Of Originals

[snapper]

Not sure that they are stating that it is a copy of an English shotgun.  Is that listed anywhere in their description?  I did not find that.

Fleener

[johngross]

Here's a review of the shotgun by Dennis Adler. He states in his review the gun is French inspired. MSRP is....sit down.....$1700.

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/shotguns/pedersoli-classic-side-side-shotgun/

[Don Steele]

In another part of my shooting life, I've had a great interest in competition shotguns. I don't dabble in them anymore, preferring to spend my range time with flintlock longrifles instead but when I heard about this one, I was interested enough to give it a look.
I'm also not seeing any claim of "English" inspiration. The checkering is AWFUL. I would like to have well executed fine line checkering on a side-by-side but in this case if they weren't going to do that, then I'm with Mike... I'd prefer they had done nothing.
As to the gun itself, once again harking back to my days shooting mass quantities of registered NSSA Skeet, ATA Trap, and Live Pigeon (Flyer) competitions...I would definitely prefer longer barrels than the 27 9/16ths they offer on this one.
I haven't kept up with Pedersoli flintlock offerings so I'll defer to someone who has experience with their locks to comment on that aspect of this new one. A well built reliable lock is the heart and soul of ANY flintlock firearm. If their locks fall down on that note, even a little bit...I'd stay away from this new gun at any price. That said....if their current production locks are decent and someone doesn't mind the barrel length...the price I'm seeing ($1700.00) seems quite reasonable, even cheap for a well regulated side-by-side. We don't know about L.O.P., drop at comb, drop at heel, or cast (if any) so it's not possible to even guess about fit, which is particularly critical in choosing a shotgun. In my experience with shotguns across the spectrum from off the shelf Remingtons to custom built Italian competition guns, if you want the best results they aren't something you can buy off the internet without handling in person (even shooting a few rounds) before making a purchase decision. With that said then, I'll reserve judgement on this one until I've at least had my hands on one. 

[Bob Roller]

I apologize, the way I wrote the original post I can certainly understand why you would think there were soliciting comments on the SxS shotgun, and that was not the case.

The had a prototype long range rifle that they were looking for comments on and since 3 of us were long range shooters we were more than happy to give them our opinions and were very honest.

I agree that on some of their guns they leave too much wood.  I was happy to see that they are rust browning some guns now.  Looks much better than a hot blue.

The checkering on the shotgun I dont like either.

Fleener

WHICH long range rifle did the new prototype represent?
Bob Roller

[snapper]

Bob

They had something like the Gibbs, but with a double set triggers.  The rear peep sight was really bad IMO.  The stock on this rifle was just a plastic wood looking thing, since it was just a prototype.

As you know double set triggers are not normally found on a English Sporting rifle.  Some matches they are not allowed.

I am not sure, but I think the price point would be cheaper than the Gibbs.  We tried to impress on them that the rear sights should be optional, since most serious LR shooters would pull them off and put good ones on it.

Fleener

[Don Steele]

Fleener,
As I was reading your response to Bob, as soon as I read your opinion of the rear sight I had exactly the same thought you did. Any serious shooter will replace whatever they put on it. Likewise someone not trying to wring out the very best reproducible performance from their rear sight won’t care or even know the difference.

[Smokey Plainsman]

It seems the Pedersoli guns offer an affordable, ready-made product for the hunters and target shooters who might not want to drop a mint or wait half a year or (much) longer to get the rifle in their hands. I own one of their pistols and it is an excellent, incredibly accurate gun. One thing is for sure, Pedersoli sells more guns than all of us combined on this board. They are sold throughout the Earth and they make a vast variety of guns with many different appeals. No they are not perfect in their details or performance, but overall, they are very serviceable guns and they make some extremely nice models that have one many competitions. I have conversed with their customer service department and they sent me a part (that I broke on accident) for free of charge all the way from Italy, and they are receptive to the shooter’s desires and requests, not true for most of the Italian makers.

These guns are not made for people like Mike Brooks, they are made for the masses and there is nothing wrong with that inherently.

[Bill Raby]

I have a Pedersoli Brown Bess and I think it is just fine. Pedersoli is making production guns. This double barrel shotgun is likely just fine. Pedersoli is making production guns. May not be the most historically accurate gun you can get, but it seems to be a nice shotgun that you can go pick up at the store for a reasonable price. I think that there will be a lot of guys that have a great time with one of these.

[Feltwad]

Here in the UK I cannot see the Pedersoli  sxs flintlock shotgun  been a hit for several reasons , first they are far to expensive , second they are a poor copy of the original , third  there are  too many originals on the market at a lot less price.
Feltwad

[Craig Wilcox]

Quite a few years ago, when I had a licensed gun shop in OK, their rep and I were chatting.  One of my customers wanted a long-barreled Sharps - but he wanted to buy a Pedersoli action and barrel, and for me to make the stock, fit the hardware stuff.  Never happened, as my customer refused to pay upfront for what he wanted.
But the rep had a "Kentucky" percussion rifle that had been their show display, and was showing some signs of aging - cracks, bumps, etc.  Well, I liked the look and the feel, and have always had a big soft spot for ML firearms, so I got their "never fired" rifle for $200 - sales price at the time was over $700.  I have never regretted it.
Sure, the "Long" part was a wee short, being 35 7/16".  But that rifle is comfortable to shoot (.45 cal), and is very accurate.  First time I took it to the range, from prone at 100 yd. measured, I fired a 3-leaf clover, 1/2" to the left of the center "X".
No, it is not period correct.  But, it fits me nicely, is easy to care for, and shoots better than I do.  I believe that they provide what their customers like, and for me, do not even pretend to be original. 

Might send the stock to Mike Brooks for some carving.....  LOL!

[Daryl]

Imho, they are asking way too much money for this gun - as I see it pictured and in the video. Yikes.
As Feltwad notes, one would be much better off to attend or have someone attend an auction in England
and get a REAL SxS flinter for 1/2 that amount.  The locks appear to be flintlock versions of the cap-locks
that were on my SxS .58 Kodiak- poor at best, but certainlyworkable in cap-lock.
The cock position in the photographs is identical to the video by David P. Thus, they appear in the fired position. Yikes!
Would it not have been 'just as easy" to make proper locks or tumblers? Probably not, easier to use THEIR existing designs.
 

[Dave Marsh]

Here in the UK I cannot see the Pedersoli  sxs flintlock shotgun  been a hit for several reasons , first they are far to expensive , second they are a poor copy of the original , third  there are  too many originals on the market at a lot less price.
Feltwad

Feltwad, I have always wanted a double barrel SXS flintlock shotgun.  I just want a plain jane shoot able flintlock SXS in 12, 16 or 20 gauge.  The Pedersoli does nothing for me and especially at that price. Where or how would one find the originals in the UK for a more reasonable price than the Pedersoli?   And then with gun laws as they are would it even be possible for someone like me from the US to purchase one at auction and have it shipped over here?  Then of course shipping and import taxes...… Sounds like Mission Impossible to me.   

Dave

[Mike Brooks]

You can find  shootable originals  here in the states for $2400 sometimes less. I sold my 18 bore several years ago for $2600. Regretted it ever since.

[Dave Marsh]

Mike, I have been looking but they are not very common and usually quite expensive.  I liked the sounds of Feltwads comment but realize buying an original one from across the pond will not be easy or cheap even if it is possible.  Too bad I wasn't into flintlocks when I was a working guy in the 90's as for about two years I spent two weeks of every month in Portsmouth.  On the ride from Heathrow to Portsmouth I used to see tons of pheasants.  Would have loved to hunt there but never checked into it to see if I even would be allowed.  Besides if I wanted to spend $2400+ on a gun I would buy one of your beauties.   

Dave

[Feltwad]

Mike, I have been looking but they are not very common and usually quite expensive.  I liked the sounds of Feltwads comment but realize buying an original one from across the pond will not be easy or cheap even if it is possible.  Too bad I wasn't into flintlocks when I was a working guy in the 90's as for about two years I spent two weeks of every month in Portsmouth.  On the ride from Heathrow to Portsmouth I used to see tons of pheasants.  Would have loved to hunt there but never checked into it to see if I even would be allowed.  Besides if I wanted to spend $2400+ on a gun I would buy one of your beauties.   

Dave

Has for exporting a antique to the States I cannot say what the price would  be my advice get in touch with auction houses such has Holts they will give you some idea  if you bought one from their auction .
Feltwad

[Dave Marsh]

Thanks.

Dave

[smokinbuck]

Although it is not a flintlock, I recently picked up an English double by Powell of Birmingham. It is in 90+% with 38 inch 20 gauge tubes.It smokes clays. The company has been in continual business since 1803 and took the time to talk with me and feels they made the gun around 1850. Although it is a cap gun it is a quality piece with a pedigree, Powell locks were models for some of the finest English gun makers, and I was able to secure it for $550. Double that for a flint gun and you are still well below the Pedersoli, triple it and and you are still below them. They are available, you just have to look hard.
Mark

[Dave Marsh]

Thanks Mark.  I am looking.  May prove to be worth the trouble.

Dave

[Daryl]

[/quote]
Has for exporting a antique to the States I cannot say what the price would  be my advice get in touch with auction houses such has Holts they will give you some idea  if you bought one from their auction .
Feltwad
[/quote]

There are a number of guys in the States buy antique rifles and shotguns through Holt's Auctions & get the guns shipped 'home'.  These guys (that I know of) reside on the www.nitroexpress.com forum.

From what I have seen of very early shotguns, auctions in Europe sell them for peanuts in comparison to what those same guns "get" over here.  Past DoubleGunJounals is a good place to 'see' these guns and what they "went for". i see prices that would be from about $600.00 US to about $1,500 US for really nicely kept' guns. The odd one will have been re-bored, of course, then re-proofed before it can be sold, I'm sure.