Author Topic: Removing rust with molasses (Read 5237 times)

tiswell · « **on:** January 30, 2019, 08:29:28 PM »

There was mention of Evapo-rust on a recent thread so I thought I would throw this up here. It was shared to me by a gun maker that he used sulphured grocery store molasses and water to remove rust from an original Brown Bess lock. He said it took several days and worked very well. This was one of the IMA Besses that he planned to restore and shoot (and he does). I have yet to try it myself, but I will be doing so soon just as a test. I don't remember the ratio but I will try it at 50/50 to see what happens. If it works as well as he said it will be good to have an eco friendly method.

Bill

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2019, 09:00:16 PM »

Hi Bill,

I'll look forward to the results of your molasses test. Just fyi, Evap-o-Rust is eco friendly too.

From their website:
When EVAPO-RUST® is spent, only the iron content of the solution will dictate how it can be disposed of. In most cases it can be dumped into the city sewer.

-Ron

Pennsylvania Dutchman · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2019, 09:33:00 PM »

Some of the auto restoration guys use the molasses liquid cattle feed supplement undiluted. I bought a battery tray for my '49 Ford truck from a fellow that soaked it in his molasses stock feeder for a couple of months, it was clean bare steel. There is another rust remover like Evaporust that I have used, it is Rust911. It comes in a concentrate and is mixed with water. It works as well as Evaporust, at fraction of the cost. I think like Evaporust it is made from sugar beets, so it is environmentally friendly also.
Mark

heelerau · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2019, 09:56:25 PM »

I used one part molasses by volume to 10 parts water from memory to de rust an IMA Brown Bess, barrel, ram rod and lock. Took some weeks to work, and best in the hot weather. Did a great job, the rust mostly washed off, the harder bits came off with steel wool. I made up a bath using plastic gutter pipe with end caps. the top one had a vent hole in it . I have also soaked various old ax heads and cleaned them up nicely. Cheap from your local stock feed place.

Cades Cove Fiddler · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2019, 10:14:02 PM »

... seems like a waste of 'lasses to me,.... like 'em better with hot buttered biskits and black coffee on these cold mornings,.... regards,...Cades Cove Fiddler ...... in TENNESSEE,.... !!!!

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2019, 10:17:46 PM »

Mole asses? Are they rough like a scotch-brite pad? Seems like they would be too small to be of much use.

-Ron

dogcatcher · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2019, 10:38:29 PM »

I used molasses from the feed store mixed with water. My source of info was this link.
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/rust-removal-using-molasses-90452/

Quote

I don’t how many of you know about using molasses and water to remove rust, but it works real well. A few years back I bought this stuff called Evapo-Rust to clean up a Sheldon shaper I had just bought. The add said it contained chelating agents that removed the iron from the oxide but not from metallic iron and that it had a sulfur compound in it that then precipitates out the iron. It worked very well but cost with shipping close to 20 dollars a gallon. So in looking on the internet to try and ID the chelating agent I found that molasses contains chelators for iron and does the same thing. I bought 5 gallons of non-de-sulfurized (still has the sulfur in it)molasses at a feed store for 12 cents a pound and diluted with between 7 and 10 parts well water. I washed a bunch of rusty parts from a IH bus and a chisel that had been barried when the house was built in ’56 in laundry detergent and hot water to remove grease and oil and dumped them into the molasses bath. After a day you could see some result but after 2 weeks it was remarkable the amount of rust that was gone and my basement smells good too. It is one of those things that seams like it is taking along time the first week but as soon as you get involved in other things the time goes by real fast. Below are are some pictures. The vice was allowed to soak over night before taking the second picture it has now been in the tube for two days. I am now looking for a bigger tube so I can soak some fenders and my 9x20 wheels, and also thinking about adding some deturgent to the mix to see if it helps with greasy parts.

Forgot one other thing I found out about the power of Molasses it is used to remediate chromium V in well water. It is pumped into the water and reducies the chromium V to chromium III.

Stoner creek · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2019, 11:10:44 PM »

Quote from: Cades Cove Fiddler on January 30, 2019, 10:14:02 PM

... seems like a waste of 'lasses to me,.... like 'em better with hot buttered biskits and black coffee on these cold mornings,.... regards,...Cades Cove Fiddler ...... in TENNESSEE,.... !!!!

I’m with Fiddler!

Robby · « **Reply #8 on:** January 31, 2019, 12:19:42 AM »

Works, but slow.
Robby

WadePatton · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2019, 01:53:32 AM »

Seems messier than vinegar. What is the chemical process? We know the vinegar is a mild acid. What component of molasses is cleaning the metal? Acid/base? other chemical magic? Maybe we should clean files in it?

We have some chemist folks around here I do think.

flinchrocket · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2019, 03:03:29 AM »

Quote from: Stoner creek on January 30, 2019, 11:10:44 PM

Quote from: Cades Cove Fiddler on January 30, 2019, 10:14:02 PM
... seems like a waste of 'lasses to me,.... like 'em better with hot buttered biskits and black coffee on these cold mornings,.... regards,...Cades Cove Fiddler ...... in TENNESSEE,.... !!!!
I’m with Fiddler!

Sorghum is gluten free you know!

Gordy · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2019, 03:28:27 AM »

Daggone it now I'm scared to eat molasses ever again !!!!
Just saying, Gordy

TN Longhunter · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2019, 03:34:56 AM »

Quote from: Cades Cove Fiddler on January 30, 2019, 10:14:02 PM

... seems like a waste of 'lasses to me,.... like 'em better with hot buttered biskits and black coffee on these cold mornings,.... regards,...Cades Cove Fiddler ...... in TENNESSEE,.... !!!!

I’m with you! Hot “ biskits” with lasses and butter.

Nhgrants · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2019, 04:04:04 AM »

I bet maple syrup might do the same thing.

Don Steele · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2019, 02:41:33 PM »

Quote from: WadePatton on January 31, 2019, 01:53:32 AM

Seems messier than vinegar. What is the chemical process? We know the vinegar is a mild acid. What component of molasses is cleaning the metal? Acid/base? other chemical magic? Maybe we should clean files in it?

We have some chemist folks around here I do think.

There is no question it works. That said, I believe there are several mechanisms occurring in the reaction folks are observing. Organic peptides and sugars which are present in Molasses are well known iron chelating agents. Which is to say, they selectively bind with the iron in ferric ions which is what rust is (Fe2O3). The oxygen is stripped off leaving the iron chelate in solution. If a rusted part has none of the original metal and is simply all rust that still retains the original shape of the part you will (essentially) just dissolve it all away. The process removes the rust it doesn't rebuild the original metal to it's original dimension. In addition Feed Grade Molasses is more effective than the more refined variety found in the grocery store. The Sulfur and Phosphates in the Feed Grade product are participating also, converting over time in the aqueous solution into acids that are also known to dissolve rust.
Cleaning files is an excellent application for a water/molasses solution Wade. The key is to ensure that your files are completely submerged. Best results will be obtained if the part is suspended in the solution. Then....patience. Works, but it's not fast. Also, temperature dependent. Room temperature, or even a little above ( like a hot garage in the Summer) will provide the best results. Outside in Winter...not so good.

Elnathan · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2019, 06:04:53 PM »

I used a 1:10 solution of grocery store molasses on a hatchet head and hot punch I picked up at the flea market last summer, and it certainly worked well, though I think it took a couple weeks. The nice things about it are that it is cheap, readily available, and doesn't promote rusting of the metal once it is removed from the solution. The drawbacks are that it is slow, it leaves the surface of the metal a rather unattractive greenish-grey color, and a solution of sugar-water left in summer heat for a couple weeks isn't the pleasantest smell in the world.

It might not be wise to use it on springs, either, but I've not tried it on springs yet or gotten a clear answer from the 'net as to whether it will cause springs to break as do certain other rust removing agents.

Cades Cove Fiddler · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2019, 08:03:11 PM »

.... elNathan,.... maybe could have distilled that fermented "smelly"mixture into some powerful rum after the rust removing was finished,..... think "recycle",......

jerrywh · « **Reply #17 on:** January 31, 2019, 08:47:15 PM »

Why not just use rust remover?

yulzari · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2019, 08:57:34 PM »

Molasses certainly works, albeit slowly. It is just one example of rust removal by acids. The acid system will remove patina. Other examples are oxalic acid, citric acid, acetic acid (vinegar) or very dilute sulphuric acid (which is the foundation of the molasses method with sulphur in the molasses). Caustic methods will leave the patina and weaken the hold of the actual rust which can be carefully removed mechanically. The acids should be at weak enough strengths not to be a health hazard to the skin but still don't get them in your eyes and oxalic acid taken internally can cause kidney failure, kill your pets who are attracted to the taste. I use oxalic acid with a good brush washing of the metal afterwards.

Caustics range from the strong skin burning varieties down to safe washing soda. They will leave patina untouched. The difference is simply in speed of operations. A dangerously strong type of caustic used with boiling water will do the job in single hours. Washing soda may take days or even weeks to do the same job but is totally safe. Your granny (or possibly great granny) spent hours every Monday wash day up to her elbows in the stuff in hot water with no effect other than clean clothes and a desire for someone to invent a cheap washing machine.

If you want safe simple options and are patient then table vinegar or washing soda are the default de-rusters. Of course if you are wedded to over the counter branded de-rusters then open your wallet in the store, proffer it to the person behind the counter and repeat the magic words "help yourself".

Not quite relevant but I used to clean decades old filthy used aluminium engine and gearbox blocks, cases etc. by boiling them in a strong washing powder solution in a bucket. Came out like new. These days people spend money to use expensive blasting machines.

Young folk of today! Ee when I were young..............(voice fades away)

Washing soda aka sodium carbonate.

rich pierce · « **Reply #19 on:** January 31, 2019, 09:30:03 PM »

What is washing soda and where can it be bought?

stubshaft · « **Reply #20 on:** January 31, 2019, 10:20:47 PM »

Quote from: jerrywh on January 31, 2019, 08:47:15 PM

Why not just use rust remover?

The sulfur in molasses removes the rust and passivates the metal so that it doesn't rust further. Rust remover leaves bare metal which is susceptible to re-rusting.

Elnathan · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2019, 02:22:26 AM »

Quote from: rich pierce on January 31, 2019, 09:30:03 PM

What is washing soda and where can it be bought?

AND

How does it do with springs? I have an old steel trap or two that could use some cleaning, and I'd be interested in a chemical method that won't cause the springs to snap.

tiswell · « **Reply #22 on:** February 01, 2019, 03:39:52 AM »

Rich,
Our Sprawlmart carries Arm and Hammer washing soda. It is among the clothes wash stuff. It blends in pretty well but is there.

Bill

yulzari · « **Reply #23 on:** February 01, 2019, 03:49:59 AM »

Quote

How does it do with springs? I have an old steel trap or two that could use some cleaning, and I'd be interested in a chemical method that won't cause the springs to snap.

It won't change anything on springs other than clean the rust off them.

grizg · « **Reply #24 on:** February 01, 2019, 06:19:28 AM »

I cleaned many dozens, if not hundreds of woodworking and machinist tools last year using electrolysis. I also had several machines that needed work (frozen bearing sleeves, jackshafts, etc.). The electrolysis process leaves the good metal and finish intact while removing the rust. If you have rust under a finish (e.g., chrome, nickel, paint) the finish will come off but that generally isn't a problem with guns... (there are exceptions!). For example, I had a couple sets of chromed auger bits that were quite rusty and all the chrome came off... that was OK with me as I want them to use, not look at, and WD-40 keeps them rust free while in storage.

I bought a cheap power supply off Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002JTD2K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and used Arm & Hammer washing soda (laundry aisle in supermarket). An old "dumb" battery charger will work too. The newer ones that are "automatic" will not work as they keep shutting off. For a container I used a plastic waste paper basket and for sacrificial anodes I used tin cans. I put cans on two sides of the basket and connected them with jumpers.

See the Proto-Ordnance channel on YouTube for examples of how electrolysis can be used to restore guns.

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Author Topic: Removing rust with molasses (Read 5237 times)

grizg