Discovering iron

[smart dog]

Hi,
The butt plate on the English rifle I am currently finishing is from an original 19th century gun and it is iron.  I built many steel-mounted guns that mostly employed modern cast steel hardware but I never worked with iron.  I hate filing and polishing modern cast steel hardware. In comparison, I am really enjoying the iron. After filing, I usually stone a steel part with a coarse stone or use 80 grit sand paper.  In contrast, a fine file produces a nice smooth finish on iron so that I go immediately to much finer grits or stones.  The time required for polishing is half what I typically need for cast steel and much more like brass. I really like this stuff and cannot wait to engrave it.

dave     

[bgf]

Iron is nice stuff, just hard to find in sufficient quality and quantity sometimes. 

I understand the cast steel parts run hard and brittle.  If you want to roll your own, mild steel is pretty easy to work with, if you haven't tried it.  It even works well cold in many applications...  I assumed you had tried it, but if not, you might like it.

[Davemuzz]

In a previous life, I was a machinist. (Like 40 years ago)  I always liked working with cast Iron vs steel. Just an easier metal to work with.

[jerrywh]

 Iron is a joy to  work with but as an engraver it has one drawback. Since it is so soft I am somewhat limited when it comes to inlaying different metals because when using teeth to secure inlays the teeth a too soft to stand up at times. It requires different techniques than steel for some metal inlays.

[Jim Kibler]

Cast material really is kind of nasty.  It's hard on files, can be hard, have voids etc.  A necessary evil though... 

Jim

[smart dog]

Cast material really is kind of nasty.  It's hard on files, can be hard, have voids etc.  A necessary evil though... 

Jim

Hi Jim,
Yes, it can be nasty and quality of steel castings sold by the major suppliers has gone down IMO in recent years.  I do not know what the alloys typically are for butt plates and trigger guards, but often need to anneal them before filing. I currently put them in my oven and bring them up to about 1500 degrees , heat soak for 10 minutes and then turn off the oven and let them cool slowly in it.  That usually does the job but not always.  Do you have any advice since you are doing a lot with steel castings?

dave

[Darkhorse]

What I remember about Iron is how physically nasty the stuff is. When I was a toolmaker we had several dies, a blanking die, a punching die and several forming dies just for iron parts. They used  some kind of liquid drawing wax to help form the iron. Mix that wax with the surface scale on the iron and it was almost like black grease. We had to repair those dies frequently and our hands were black along with our clothes and it never seemed to wash off.
I'm sure there are more friendly irons out there but I've not had the pleasure of working with any of it.

[M. E. Pering]

I have machined a lot of iron castings, and due to it's high carbon content, all I have ever worked with has been pretty dirty stuff.  That being said, once past the tough skin which castings often have, and through and chill layers, it is a joy to machine.  And as a side benefit of the high carbon content, lubrication is generally not required for normal machining.

Matt

[Mark Elliott]

I have found wrought iron very easy to work, both forging and filing.    You do have to make sure you bend or forge it hot.   

[R.J.Bruce]

Does'nt cast iron have completely different working properties from wrought iron? Which is what I thought the OP was talking about?
Isn't wrought iron what was used for long rifle furniture, not cast iron?
                  R.J.Bruce

[smart dog]

Hi,
Yes, anyone comparing wrought or forged iron with cast iron is comparing apples and oranges.

dave

[Dennis Glazener]

My steel trigger guards are investment castings. They are very nice to bend and to file, have little experience with sand cast iron.
Dennis

[Jim Kibler]

Cast material really is kind of nasty.  It's hard on files, can be hard, have voids etc.  A necessary evil though... 

Jim

Hi Jim,
Yes, it can be nasty and quality of steel castings sold by the major suppliers has gone down IMO in recent years.  I do not know what the alloys typically are for butt plates and trigger guards, but often need to anneal them before filing. I currently put them in my oven and bring them up to about 1500 degrees , heat soak for 10 minutes and then turn off the oven and let them cool slowly in it.  That usually does the job but not always.  Do you have any advice since you are doing a lot with steel castings?



dave

Annealing is sure to help at least a little.  I think part of the problem is that parts are blasted with sand or other abrasives that get partially embedded in the surface.  This is surely hard on files.

Jim

[Clint]

Before 1900 or so every thing "steel" was wrought iron. WW1 technology weaned the world into the age of steel for common things. If you decide to make things out of iron you need to understand that it's different from mild steel. Since it has a distinct grain iron will not always play well with machine tools, but it saws and files really well.Iron can be easily pack hardened and of course it hammers well at high temperatures. The learning curve to effectively hammer iron vs. steel is not that great but you have to pay attention to the heat. All of the iron we have available today is recycled and it is handy to bear in mind that whatever the piece might have been it was probably finished up at lower temps. I always begin hammering old iron at a welding heat, that way any thing that may have started to delaminate on the finishing operations will be restored to a solid. Rough work is always done at higher temps. Once you become comfortable with iron's limitations and advantages little details begin to emerge which give you clues about why so many old things are made the way they were. Have fun with it, it can become another life long addiction.           Clint

[Daryl]

I thought steel was being used in combination with iron when making high grade English damascus barrels in the 1890's.
Jerry will know for sure.

[Carl Young]

Before 1900 or so every thing "steel" was wrought iron.

I disagree, "steel" is and was a different alloy than "wrought iron", google "crucible steel" and "Bessemer steel process" for a couple of pre-1900 examples. My dad was a metallurgist at United States Steel in Birmingham and I watched them from our front porch when they tapped the open hearth furnaces at the Ensley Works. The smell of hot iron brings back a lot of memories! 

Before the twentieth century wrought iron was very common, and was largely supplanted when mass produced steel became cheaper to make in the early twentieth century.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Yes as Carl described.  Many centuries ago, "wootz" was produced in India and central Asia that was a mix of steel and iron. "Blister" steel was the most common in Europe and was used for battery faces, frizzen faces, and springs on guns since the 16th century.  Later, there was crucible steel.  The problem is that no one could make it in large cheap quantities so it was expensive.  Gunsmiths made as much as they could from wrought iron, case hardening it when needed. Not until the Bessemer process in the mid 19th century was large-scale steel production possible.

dave 

[Clint]

It is quite marvelous that iron and steel were "discovered" or developed in many parts of the world, almost at the same time (give or take a couple hundred years). The fact that carbonizing iron and quenching it from high temps, in order to harden it is also an almost universal phenomena. Why carbon? and how do you get it to mix? We live in a world of information, but a quick search on this web site will illustrate how baffleing it is to harden a frizzen. Not that it's difficult or that we are too dumb to get it, it's just out there, slightly beyond our understanding. The ancients did have steel but they had to make it from iron in smallish pieces so the carbon would migrate deeply. Many many northern European swords have been excavated that were made of iron and a few laminated steel swords have been found. Blister steel was made by pack hardening wrought iron bars for a period of days, that length of time is what is responsible for the blisters. The standard for size bars to be blistered was about 3/4" by five inches which is just a little bigger than the typical British anvil face, hmm. A North American gunsmith/ blacksmith could pretty easily make a gunlock spring out of iron and carburizing it in the shop, but just as we can say today "why make a lock when you can just buy it? the old smith might say " we can simply buy finger steel, so why make it here? Not every question needs an answer but all questions need to be considered.Clint

[David R. Pennington]

Interesting subject. Wrought iron is (as the name implies) was made by working or hammering. In the days when foundries were fueled mostly by charcoal and air supplied by muscle power, getting enough heat to completely reduce the ore was difficult. As it began to melt the iron would begin to form into a mass, a large spongy glob. This could be pulled from the fire and hammered (wrought). As this heating and working was repeated more of the impurities were forced out while some were actually ingrained. This gives the iron it's grain structure and some of it's admirable qualities.
The more it was "wrought" the finer the grain and better the quality.
As far as I know it is no longer manufactured anywhere, although there is some available that is manufactured from recycled iron.
The problem now is the process is wasteful and expensive compared to producing modern steel. I read somewhere that a large percentage of the iron in the ore is lost in the process of manufacturing wrought iron.
From a blacksmith's perspective it is wonderful stuff when you get used to it. Most of it forge welds beautifully. It is soft and easier to file and finish.
Some of the poorer grade stuff is a devilment at times, wants to string apart like a bundle of half cooked spaghetti, and you have to work at welding heats to keep welding it back as you go.
One of the best uses is laminating tomahawk or axe blades. Sandwiching steel between the iron and forge welding. The iron will withstand the higher temp and protects the steel while welding in the forge.
I had a fellow tell me once that my welds wouldn't hold. I have one I carry to events and always give to the young guys throwing hawks and ask them to see if they can tear it up. In about ten years they haven't done it much damage except some dings on the handle.

[BOB HILL]

David R., there is a company in England that still produces real wrought iron. I’m sure it’s expensive. May be worthwhile for small projects. The company is called the Real Wrought Iron Company.
Bob

[David R. Pennington]

Bob, if it is the one I think it is I did research them a bit and they are not actually producing iron from ore, but are buying scrap wrought and reprocessing it. And yes it is pricey, a ‘precious ‘ metal.