Author Topic: jags  (Read 7215 times)

Scott Semmel

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jags
« on: June 19, 2009, 10:48:24 PM »
I apparently had nothing better to do and measured a number of jags that had accumulated in my shooting box. I am not going to remember the exact numbers but there was a significant difference from maker to maker with the T/Cs being the smallest. Which brought back memories of losing patches in my hawken back in the 70's I think I used cut up old sweatshirts for cleaning patches to avoid diggging out my patch puller.
I have a combination of jag and patch that works for me, that is relatively quick cleaning with little or no patch puller use. But I was wondering if ther is an advantage to smaller jag and thicker patch or larger jag and thinner pach?

Offline Dan

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Re: jags
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2009, 11:01:11 PM »
I prefer the smaller jag and thicker patch but it increases the opportunity to use the patch worm.

Offline Nate McKenzie

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Re: jags
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2009, 05:47:46 PM »
A tow worm and linen tow works much better than a patch and jag. If you try it, you'll like it. Its much quicker, more efficient, and you can wash it and reuse it, plus its how it was done way back then.

Offline hanshi

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Re: jags
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2009, 06:25:06 PM »
A tow worm and linen tow works much better than a patch and jag. If you try it, you'll like it. Its much quicker, more efficient, and you can wash it and reuse it, plus its how it was done way back then.

Got a friend that uses that method and swears by it.  I'm looking to try it soon.  I've been using undersize jags (.40 in a .45, etc.) with patches and haven't had any problems other than a lost patch on rare occasions.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

fdf

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Re: jags
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2009, 08:26:46 PM »
Recently I listened in on a conversation and the shooter said he liked undersized jags (40 in a 45) and  two (2) patches for cleaning.  His belief was he was better able to clean the barrel.

He holds national records I do not, I sit, listen and absorb.  My scores continue to improve by listening and keeping quiet at times.

Food for thought.

FDF

Offline Don Steele

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Re: jags
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2009, 12:00:15 AM »
I've probably gotten my best results using slightly undersized jags and larger pieces of thinner material.
Seems to let the jag/patch go to the bottom of the barrel without pushing all the crud down ahead of it. Then when I pull it back, the excess patch material "bunches" up ahead of the jag as it comes up, and provides the bulk of soft material needed to get into the grooves and pull out the crud. If a new jag is too big, I'll just polish it down a bit with emery cloth.
Look at the world with a smilin' eye and laugh at the devil as his train rolls by...(Alison Krauss)

Offline hanshi

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Re: jags
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2009, 01:10:05 AM »
Recently I listened in on a conversation and the shooter said he liked undersized jags (40 in a 45) and  two (2) patches for cleaning.  His belief was he was better able to clean the barrel.

He holds national records I do not, I sit, listen and absorb.  My scores continue to improve by listening and keeping quiet at times.

Food for thought.

FDF

I've about decided that cleaning, loading, etc., practices don't have much to do with winning titles.  I think it's 98% pure, unadulterated skill!  These guys are simply that much better with their guns than we are....or maybe even hope to be.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

fdf

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Re: jags
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2009, 01:37:50 AM »

I sit, listen and hope to gain a bit of knowledge here and there and maybe gain a point or so.  Sometimes a point is enough to be a winner.   I have learned whom to listen to and whom to be polite to and not incorporate their advice into my learning. 

I guesss I figure if they are Champions they have 2 things on me, natural skill and  experience.

I chase singular points, not 10 or 15 points at a time.

I finally edged someone at a state shoot whom I have never been able to beat.  Afterwards he came up and shook my hand and said well done.  He said I have one question, how did you do it?  Easy, you taught me, just took me awhile to over come your natural skill.

fdf 

fdf

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Re: jags
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2009, 02:02:08 AM »
"I've about decided that cleaning, loading, etc., practices don't have much to do with winning titles.  I think it's 98% pure, unadulterated skill!  These guys are simply that much better with their guns than we are....or maybe even hope to be."




I have to disagree a bit, winning comes from natural skill, no agruement.

Winning also comes from "consistency," doing the same thing, the same way each and evey time.  Actually, it's simple in a sense, you have to be repetitive all the time.

Winners do things that non winners do not do, excepting their natual skill:

1.  They dry fire a lot
2.  They shoot a lot
3.  They weigh their balls
4.  They clean between each shot and clean the same way each time
5.  They apply the same seating pressure on the ball each time
6.  Etc, being a winner requires work, most of us do not do work to be a winner.
7.  Lastly is mental.

fdf

Scott Semmel

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Re: jags
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2009, 05:43:42 AM »
I've probably gotten my best results using slightly undersized jags and larger pieces of thinner material.
Seems to let the jag/patch go to the bottom of the barrel without pushing all the crud down ahead of it. Then when I pull it back, the excess patch material "bunches" up ahead of the jag as it comes up, and provides the bulk of soft material needed to get into the grooves and pull out the crud. If a new jag is too big, I'll just polish it down a bit with emery cloth.

There was a time I swabbed after every shot and became convinced that swabbing led to a fouled touchhole, thus flash in pan, thus annoyed frustrated shooter, thus less fun, gave up swabbing. I remember folks saying you needed to pull the fouling out not push it down the bore, untill your post I couldn't imagine how to do that. Now that I read your post it seems very clear! Thank You

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: jags
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2009, 06:30:13 PM »
I've probably gotten my best results using slightly undersized jags and larger pieces of thinner material.
Seems to let the jag/patch go to the bottom of the barrel without pushing all the crud down ahead of it. Then when I pull it back, the excess patch material "bunches" up ahead of the jag as it comes up, and provides the bulk of soft material needed to get into the grooves and pull out the crud. If a new jag is too big, I'll just polish it down a bit with emery cloth.

There was a time I swabbed after every shot and became convinced that swabbing led to a fouled touchhole, thus flash in pan, thus annoyed frustrated shooter, thus less fun, gave up swabbing. I remember folks saying you needed to pull the fouling out not push it down the bore, untill your post I couldn't imagine how to do that. Now that I read your post it seems very clear! Thank You
Scott:: You use the word 'swabbing' - I take that to mean a sloppy wet patch down in to the mt breech tween each shot?????  Consider this:: No seperate patch wiping tween each shot!!!! Powder down then wet spit patched ball down onto the charge..... This way no slop into the bare breech = no problem over that!!   This has been written up here more than a few times.....Thataway your cleaning and pushing the fouling onto the powder and not on to the breech!!  She then gets cleaned again when the shot is fired....!   $#*! it works for more shooters than you may think.... ;D  I turn my jags a bit smaller than they come off the shelf!

Teflon is another story however!!

BTW you missed a good shoot a wk ago at First Frontier!!  35 shooters - nice weather plus a somewhat expanded novelty/silohuette agg match,.,  Don't be a stranger!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 06:33:17 PM by Roger Fisher »

Scott Semmel

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Re: jags
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2009, 08:08:11 PM »
Roger- couldn't agree with you more. I found wiping between shots to cause fouled touch holes and large deposits of fouling on the breech plug. But apparently it works for some folks and the undersized jag with an oversized patch was an AHAA! idea for me, that sounds like it would work. For that matter Tow might do the same. 
I'm sticking with a wet patch as you described.

fdf

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Re: jags
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2009, 01:30:04 AM »
Sometime ago, I read that rotating (circular motion) the ramrod, either counter clockwise or counter clockwise when the ramrod bottomed out, the jag would shove fowling into places you do not want it to go to.  I had one rifle which was prone to being cranky after cleaning.  After cleaning it via rotating the ramrod when the ramrod bottomed out, it was difficult to make it fire. It was a T/C percussion

After reading, I started only up and down movement of the ramrod, no rotation on the ramrod when it bottomed out.  Problem solved

Second lesson learned.

I was frugal for a long time, I picked up once used cleaning patches from the trash cans after a shoot.  I would take them home, wash them and reuse them.  All of a sudden I started having ignition problem.  Initial conclusion was I was dry balling.

Too  many instances of failure to fire.  After a bit of studying I found out the jag I was using was cutting a perfect circle  in the cleaning patch and leaving it in breech. A clog waiting to have fun

Solution, new patches only and do not put a lot of force on the jag when it bottoms out in the breech and no sharp edges on a jag.

fdf

Daryl

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Re: jags
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2009, 05:25:31 PM »
Taylor and I have a friend who uses nothing but a worm with towe.  His rifles are never cleaned well enough for me - with fouling generally left in the breech and lock.

Offline Pete G.

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Re: jags
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2009, 03:19:53 AM »
I can't imagine being so inattentive so as to not notice a cleaning patch that had a hole cut out of the middle. I guess it could happen.

Offline davec2

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Re: jags
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2009, 03:56:51 AM »
This whole discussion covers part of why I made this crazy "Swiss Army Knife" of muzzleloading shooting tools.  I call it the "gunner's mate".  With a jag, a worm, a ball puller, ball drill, vent pick, knapping hammer, screw driver, etc, etc, I can do almost anything I need to do to keep shooting short of re-boring and re-rifling.




« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 06:33:28 AM by davec2 »
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Daryl

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Re: jags
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2009, 04:04:40 AM »
Cool tools Dave.