Author Topic: Shooting original Hawken rifle (Read 10854 times)

Phil Neal · « **Reply #25 on:** February 23, 2019, 03:42:31 AM »

Quote from: OldMtnMan on February 16, 2019, 10:10:53 PM

Dan......... A TC or Browning aren't good replicas. The TC is a joke and the Browning was never supposed to be a Hawken. More of a plains rifle.

Some replicas are good though. Don Stith as an example. There are others.

So The TC is a joke, who knew. Now when I shoot one of my TC's I will know its just a joke that it blew a massive hole in the target.

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #26 on:** February 23, 2019, 04:45:45 AM »

A joke compared to being a replica of a Hawken. It's a good shooting gun.

Don't be so touchy.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #27 on:** February 23, 2019, 05:46:25 AM »

Your T/C rifle is a deadly rifle, or at least mine was. That T/C had the balls to call it a Hawken, is the joke. It's as much a Hawken as a Lada is a Lincoln.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #28 on:** February 23, 2019, 05:18:08 PM »

Quote from: D. Taylor Sapergia on February 23, 2019, 05:46:25 AM

Your T/C rifle is a deadly rifle, or at least mine was. That T/C had the balls to call it a Hawken, is the joke. It's as much a Hawken as a Lada is a Lincoln.

We have owned 6 Lincolns during our almost 50 years of marriage.What is a Lada?
We have a friend that has a one of a kind Duesenberg and had a detachable bumper
"sticker" that said,"I gave up a perfectly good Yugo for this".He was driving it one day and
some young guys pulled up beside him at a traffic light and asked him "WHY was he driving an
old car". The answer was, "My retirement caved in and it's all I can afford".This is a wealthy
man that is a common as anyone on this forum and a lot of fun to be with.

Bob Roller

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #29 on:** February 23, 2019, 05:54:36 PM »

Bob,

A Lada is an economy grade Russian car.

An old bloke I know has a Duesenberg sitting out back of his house with a tree growing up between front bumper and the hood.
Keep thinking I should ask about it, but projects are way over my head already.

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #30 on:** February 23, 2019, 06:10:38 PM »

Quote from: Pukka Bundook on February 23, 2019, 05:54:36 PM

Bob,

A Lada is an economy grade Russian car.

An old bloke I know has a Duesenberg sitting out back of his house with a tree growing up between front bumper and the hood.
Keep thinking I should ask about it, but projects are way over my head already.

It might be worth it. A Duesenberg just sold for 22 million.

Herb · « **Reply #31 on:** February 23, 2019, 06:49:03 PM »

OldMtnMan- If you want to hold a real Hawken, Jim Gordon has maybe 30 of them in his museum at Glorieta, NM, which can't be far from you. You can hold them and handle them.

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #32 on:** February 23, 2019, 07:31:16 PM »

I don't know Herb. You'd have to drag me out of there at closing time. Hawken heaven.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #33 on:** February 23, 2019, 08:21:38 PM »

Quote from: Pukka Bundook on February 23, 2019, 05:54:36 PM

Bob,

A Lada is an economy grade Russian car.

An old bloke I know has a Duesenberg sitting out back of his house with a tree growing up between front bumper and the hood.
Keep thinking I should ask about it, but projects are way over my head already.

Even an incomplete Duesenberg is a rare find and if it IS a Model "J"
it still a valuable item. Your description indicates a car with no engine.
Makes no difference and it's possible the engine is stored nearby and
it doesn't have to be a complete engine either.I have the records from day one
on all KNOWN "J's"in existence both complete cars and parts that proved the
car did at one time was around.Please try to find out more about this car and
a picture sent to me <bobroller@frontier.com>would help a lot.

Bob Roller

MuskratMike · « **Reply #34 on:** February 23, 2019, 09:18:21 PM »

To Herb: can you tell more about the W. Hawken flintlock in the pictures? I can't quite read the place card. Was it made at their St. Louis shop? Everyone tells that they made some flintlocks but none are known to exist. Is this the "holy grail" of Hawkens?

Herb · « **Reply #35 on:** February 24, 2019, 01:54:09 AM »

MuskratMike, it is the bottom rifle in this photo. The label reads "W. Hawken" Full Stock Rifle. William Hawken was the younger brother of Sam and Jake Hawken. William remained in Hagerstown, Maryland where he took over the business of his father Christian the Hawken family patriarch. See Bill Reisner's article in Bulletin 39 of the ASAC "Artistry of the Hawken Family" pages 156-159".

Now it is the top rifle. the label of the third rifle down reads "W. S. Hawken was the son of Sam Hawken; worked with his father from 1850 to 1860 in St. Louis, then moved to Denver working as a gunsmith." If you hold down Control and hit the + sign, the photo will enlarge and maybe you can read it then.

This is the label for the flintlock rifle in the top two pictures.

This is all I know about this rifle. Does anyone have the reference "Bulletin 39 of the ASAC, "Artistry of the Hawken Family" pages 156-159?

Daryl · « **Reply #36 on:** February 24, 2019, 02:44:25 AM »

VERY interesting, thanks Herb.

Herb · « **Reply #37 on:** February 24, 2019, 08:36:44 PM »

The pictures I copied from my computer here have lost resolution. But if you left click on a picture, a box comes up that says "load full resolution 5.2MB" (or whatever). Left click on that box. The much sharper original comes up. There will be a little magnifying box symbol with a plus sign in it. Left click again to enlarge the picture, and you can read these labels. By the way, that bottom photo, bottom rifle, was made by C & J Hawken, not J&S.

Daryl · « **Reply #38 on:** February 24, 2019, 10:50:06 PM »

tks- that works

Herb · « **Reply #39 on:** February 25, 2019, 07:47:29 AM »

Note that the bottom rifle by C & J Hawken is a fullstock conversion. From flint. Notice the front lock bolt in the percussion (now) lock.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #40 on:** February 25, 2019, 08:09:46 AM »

Herb, some lovely rifles there, but some have a fierce amount of drop!

Bob Roller,
No, the car has an engine still. Think it was running when he stood it there. Just has a tree in the gap between hood and bumper. No clue on the model though.
I should ask him!

Mike from OK · « **Reply #41 on:** February 26, 2019, 05:15:00 AM »

Quote from: alacran on February 22, 2019, 03:59:12 PM

Quote from: Mike from OK on February 22, 2019, 06:54:29 AM
Been a while since I visited the place, but the JM Davis Gun Museum in Claremore, OK had at least one Hawken rifle. Possibly more than one.

I'm certain they have at least one. And if I remember correctly it's a full stock. Might be time for a little road trip to refresh my memory.

Pretty cool to be inches away from something like that.

Mike
Haven't been there for a while myself. Last time I was there the only Hawken on display was a brass mounted squirrel rifle.

You may be right... Last time I was there my oldest daughter was still in elementary school...

She's going to make me a grandpa in a few months. So it's been a while.

Mike

shootrj2003 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 14, 2021, 06:38:29 AM »

I guess we would shoot them because ,according to history,they put a great value on the Hawken name,if you got a reputation for having a good reliable,accurate product in a day when a guys life depended on those qualities ,that’s where the value and idea of it being a big thing to be able to shoot one comes in,if I owned one I would shoot the ——-out of it,I guess I’m a poor gun collector! I would shoot the ——- out of anything that was really old but still in shootable condition.When you do that you connect to Every man that ever used it,I have a collection of spear heads and Stone Age things one is a greenstone hand axe ,that is an absolutely perfectly shaped tool that must have taken the artisan a long time grinding it on another stone,when I hold it I’m connecting over maybe 10;000 years to the maker and users of what must be the Snap-on tool of the time,or the Hawken !

smylee grouch · « **Reply #43 on:** March 14, 2021, 07:21:55 AM »

We would get this old timer to come to one our shoots that would bring his original S. Hawken and shoot it. He let me take a shot with it at a gong out around 60-70 yds. I hit the gong but wasn't that impressed with it. The rifle had seen a lot of service and the bore was a little rough. I would be more enthused to shoot that Lang or Manton or other top British makers gun. They were far better than any Hawken IMHO.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #44 on:** March 14, 2021, 09:25:21 AM »

Quote from: shootrj2003 on February 16, 2019, 08:15:25 AM

Any record of anybody shooting an original Hawken and the results? if I owned one I would.!

The book, "The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle" by Ned Roberts documents a test of an original.

Stoner creek · « **Reply #45 on:** March 14, 2021, 03:55:15 PM »

Quote from: shootrj2003 on March 14, 2021, 06:38:29 AM

I guess we would shoot them because ,according to history,they put a great value on the Hawken name,if you got a reputation for having a good reliable,accurate product in a day when a guys life depended on those qualities ,that’s where the value and idea of it being a big thing to be able to shoot one comes in,if I owned one I would shoot the ——-out of it,I guess I’m a poor gun collector! I would shoot the ——- out of anything that was really old but still in shootable condition.When you do that you connect to Every man that ever used it,I have a collection of spear heads and Stone Age things one is a greenstone hand axe ,that is an absolutely perfectly shaped tool that must have taken the artisan a long time grinding it on another stone,when I hold it I’m connecting over maybe 10;000 years to the maker and users of what must be the Snap-on tool of the time,or the Hawken !

The artifact that you have pictured is a Celt.

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #46 on:** March 16, 2021, 07:04:09 AM »

For me, after seeing his work, shooting one of Herb's creations would be the same as shooting an original J & S Hawken. He has a great touch with the "original" Plains rifle.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #47 on:** March 17, 2021, 03:49:17 AM »

Quote from: Stoner creek on March 14, 2021, 03:55:15 PM

Quote from: shootrj2003 on March 14, 2021, 06:38:29 AM
I guess we would shoot them because ,according to history,they put a great value on the Hawken name,if you got a reputation for having a good reliable,accurate product in a day when a guys life depended on those qualities ,that’s where the value and idea of it being a big thing to be able to shoot one comes in,if I owned one I would shoot the ——-out of it,I guess I’m a poor gun collector! I would shoot the ——- out of anything that was really old but still in shootable condition.When you do that you connect to Every man that ever used it,I have a collection of spear heads and Stone Age things one is a greenstone hand axe ,that is an absolutely perfectly shaped tool that must have taken the artisan a long time grinding it on another stone,when I hold it I’m connecting over maybe 10;000 years to the maker and users of what must be the Snap-on tool of the time,or the Hawken !

The artifact that you have pictured is a Celt.

In 1984 my wife and I had a six week holiday in Equador. She collected emeralds and rubies, and I collected stone age tools. I brought back about a half dozen stone axe heads like that one. I'd find them in little road-side shops in the Oriente (Jungle), East of the mountains. The Indians there told me that they were gifts from the gods...they'd find them in the jungle so assumed they were 'out of this world'. Mine are definitely not Celt.

Sharpsman · « **Reply #48 on:** March 20, 2021, 01:46:32 AM »

I'm happy to hold what I got!!

Untitled by Sharps Man, on Flickr

L. Day .58 Swival Breech Hawken - 1 by Sharps Man, on Flickr

Daryl · « **Reply #49 on:** March 20, 2021, 03:02:35 AM »

That .58 swivel breech would be a great hunting rifle.

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Author Topic: Shooting original Hawken rifle (Read 10854 times)